American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

They accrue VC with their TWA company but bid VC with their 4/10/01 seniority...there are 30 or so still in DFW...at one time some their members were bidding 6 weeks with January, February and some of March available...that letter was written in ‘92 so TWA had nothing to do with it originally...it stemmed from 2 arbitration’s in the ‘70s that involved Sky Chef and AMR employees if I remember correctly...basically a “past practice” decision...on a side note DFW FM bids their VC like the rest of the system...

I know that the DFW Reps at the time would have no choice but to honor the past practice decision but it’s just crummy when you find out the practice is only being upheld in one city and not the entire system.

Just not something that left a good taste in my mouth when I found out and I was there at that time.

And yes I know I probably benefitted from it too.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

And the reason why it’s imperative IMO that you guys secure language giving you a fair ability to cross over or at least be able to fill a vacancy in the Mainline system if you chose.

You have to realize (And I’m sure you do) that the second the Company announces a Station being opened to Mainline the transfer list is going to be full and our Members are going to take those positions leaving you guys high and dry.



Exactly. The reality is that there are markets that don’t support Mainline traffic and would have too many empty seats if you threw in a 737 or 319.

Regional Airlines along with Trains, Busses, Cabs and Bicycles all serve as viable modes of transportation and satisfy needs.

I agree completely. I've asked the international president about a flow through agreement. He stated that the new AA may not be enthusiastic about it but they are shooting for that. That's why many have not left yet as we were told maybe 10% tops of those displaced would come back and maybe we would keep our hire dates intact Sadly many good workers have left for other stations and Southwest and United the two hub operations here. In fact United just posted part time openings here and many including myself applied instead of waiting to see what TWU will do. A great deal of crew chiefs applied so it may get ugly and alot shorter for ramp coverage.: I would hate to take a chance then after leaving something comes about but with mainline pay, it seems we may have to do that although most of us would rather stay to see if American comes back. United is at $14:03 and going to $14.38 Dec 1st.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

Kev did you catch this? DGS in RDU talking about layoffs as a result of Delta cancelling their Contract with the service company and insourcing those jobs back to the mainline.

“Last week, Delta Air Lines disclosed that it was terminating its contract with Delta Global Services, instead electing to hire its own ramp crew – translating to 70 full-time positions at RDU. A Delta representative said in an email at the time that DGS employees would be given “preferential consideration above other external candidates” for those jobs.”

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangl...-at-rdu-impacts-320.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo

Yes this is what myself and Kev were talking about earlier. Wonder if AA will follow suit. Wishful thinking.

 

[B737 driver]

Yes this is what myself and Kev were talking about earlier. Wonder if AA will follow suit. Wishful thinking.

Probably Parker is hoping people will leave so he can contract it out, or hire a bunch of part timers.

 

[WeAAsles]

I agree completely. I've asked the international president about a flow through agreement. He stated that the new AA may not be enthusiastic about it but they are shooting for that. That's why many have not left yet as we were told maybe 10% tops of those displaced would come back and maybe we would keep our hire dates intact Sadly many good workers have left for other stations and Southwest and United the two hub operations here. In fact United just posted part time openings here and many including myself applied instead of waiting to see what TWU will do. A great deal of crew chiefs applied so it may get ugly and alot shorter for ramp coverage.: I would hate to take a chance then after leaving something comes about but with mainline pay, it seems we may have to do that although most of us would rather stay to see if American comes back. United is at $14:03 and going to $14.38 Dec 1st.

Personally if I wanted to stay in that area I would go for one of those Hub Airlines as over time I would have more job security than staying with AA who will always have a smaller operation there.

It also currently takes 11 years on your wage scale to earn the same wage rate you’d receive right out of the gate at UAL. And I’m sure UAL is going to give you much better benefits.

Colonel were you originally AA and have recall rights? Can I get a little more of your story? How much time do you have with AE/Envoy?

 

[WeAAsles]

Probably Parker is hoping people will leave so he can contract it out, or hire a bunch of part timers.

Paying a sub contractor company who is in it to earn their own profits would cost the Company more than what they are already saving by keeping it in house as Envoy when you look at these wages being paid.

 

[B737 driver]

Paying a sub contractor company who is in it to earn their own profits would cost the Company more than what they are already saving by keeping it in house as Envoy when you look at these wages being paid.

View attachment 13553

Sounds like they don't want long term employees, except pilots and F/As

 

[WeAAsles]

Sounds like they don't want long term employees, except pilots and F/As

Well the job market dictates what are acceptable pay rates. If there are people out there willing to fill these positions for those rates then there is no need for the Company to want to raise them up.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Crankyflier article makes some points, but as for issues with AA I have to point the finger at mgmt. This is a much bigger airline than they were used to, and in all fairness this was the last merger behind United and Delta. Even at that I wonder about Parker and team being up to the task.

they make no sense, what so ever.

they just started phl-mex, and after a few months, aa says they are stopping service. again, jet fuel prices are a reason.

so, oil has to be at $23/bbl for us to make money with the 'youngest fleet in the industry'??

dl-nw and ua-co had head starts on synergizing routes and equipment, etc...i sympathized, give us the same amount of time. doesn't look like it matters.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I used to be a huge proponent of Classification seniority- I was that guy that moved "to get FT," and then again for a Lead date.

Of course, after we lost representation, we had to go with DL's model of using DOH. At the time, I thought it was a disaster. Te years later, I can't imagine going back.

My opinion -and it's just that- is that it might be best for AA workers to just do the same once and for all. Between Kasher, and Titles, and "bad time," and Piedmont, there's just a jumbled mess. There might be some short-term heartburn, but it may prove better in the long run.

you may be correct, but it would never fly. thousands of laa guys would get angry about the hundreds jumping them.

lots of guys in the 35-25 year range. all maxed out, etc. ok, now, it's all about quality of work life. not too many easy shifts left, only so many am shifts. it would get ugly.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I agree completely. I've asked the international president about a flow through agreement. He stated that the new AA may not be enthusiastic about it but they are shooting for that. That's why many have not left yet as we were told maybe 10% tops of those displaced would come back and maybe we would keep our hire dates intact Sadly many good workers have left for other stations and Southwest and United the two hub operations here. In fact United just posted part time openings here and many including myself applied instead of waiting to see what TWU will do. A great deal of crew chiefs applied so it may get ugly and alot shorter for ramp coverage.: I would hate to take a chance then after leaving something comes about but with mainline pay, it seems we may have to do that although most of us would rather stay to see if American comes back. United is at $14:03 and going to $14.38 Dec 1st.

i wish you the best, but there is no way your hiring date at envoy will be your occupational date at aa, if you get hired. i hope you do get hired by aa and that aa will work it's own flights in iah.

i know some 25 year people at envoy/eagle and they stay with envoy, because $15+-$16/hr and easy work is better than starting all over again at aa in the bellies every day.

some newer envoy in my station complain that aa purposely doesn't take them because the envoy operation would be compromised if 12-15 envoy people are in every aa new hire class. it's as if it's a trap.

i know someone that worked for an aa contract company and she desperately wanted to get hired for airline passenger service. i told her to ignore envoy and keep trying with aa. after nearly 2 years, she finally got the call to aa and she's better off for it.

to me, envoy is a trap, unless you get hired as management and then move over to aa.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Personally if I wanted to stay in that area I would go for one of those Hub Airlines as over time I would have more job security than staying with AA who will always have a smaller operation there.

It also currently takes 11 years on your wage scale to earn the same wage rate you’d receive right out of the gate at UAL. And I’m sure UAL is going to give you much better benefits.

Colonel were you originally AA and have recall rights? Can I get a little more of your story? How much time do you have with AE/Envoy?

i agree with you. he's better off with ua or southwest in iah. too bad a devoted employee has to deal with these circumstances.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

Probably Parker is hoping people will leave so he can contract it out, or hire a bunch of part timers.

Absolutely. We've talked about that as well.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

Personally if I wanted to stay in that area I would go for one of those Hub Airlines as over time I would have more job security than staying with AA who will always have a smaller operation there.

It also currently takes 11 years on your wage scale to earn the same wage rate you’d receive right out of the gate at UAL. And I’m sure UAL is going to give you much better benefits.

Colonel were you originally AA and have recall rights? Can I get a little more of your story? How much time do you have with AE/Envoy?

Your are absolutely right. I've already factored in starting United pay vs top out at Envoy. No way in hell I was going to do that. So United and Southwest are the biggest game in town. No way I'm moving back North lol.

AAG 5 years total. About a 1yr with Piedmont and 4 with Envoy.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

i wish you the best, but there is no way your hiring date at envoy will be your occupational date at aa, if you get hired. i hope you do get hired by aa and that aa will work it's own flights in iah.

i know some 25 year people at envoy/eagle and they stay with envoy, because $15+-$16/hr and easy work is better than starting all over again at aa in the bellies every day.

some newer envoy in my station complain that aa purposely doesn't take them because the envoy operation would be compromised if 12-15 envoy people are in every aa new hire class. it's as if it's a trap.

i know someone that worked for an aa contract company and she desperately wanted to get hired for airline passenger service. i told her to ignore envoy and keep trying with aa. after nearly 2 years, she finally got the call to aa and she's better off for it.

to me, envoy is a trap, unless you get hired as management and then move over to aa.

Thank you much. I know there is no chance of occupational time now.i know some of those same people that worry more about their seniority vs a better situation. I also know for fact what you stated in terms of AA rejecting some from Envoy. Envoy wouldn't have anyone. Especially in ORD and DFW. Some people slip in the cracks but they are probably better off quitting and than applying.

I definitely am looking at the hub operations now. As much as the United guys cry like babies about the IAM, they don't know how easy they have it. Mid 60's an hr on your off day to run bags, don't look for empathy from me. We can swap any day. Southwest is my second option if United doesn't come through. They will need a bunch of ppl. Word is they want to go up to 600 flights a day and move the heart of the operations to Houston out of Chicago.