American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[CremaDiLimone]

Do you think that over time some of those RJ Flights will be shifted over to Mainline as AA takes delivery of new jets?

Their order book is still showing over 200 planes yet to be delivered even if they have announced deferring a few.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_fleet

i hope so, but, given today's robust business climate and aa still having the RJ fetish, i'm not so sure. for the thousandth time, i'm going to repeat what dl and ua have said all year: "we are recouping jet fuel price spikes due to the ability to raise fares and more premium passengers".

i saw last week that aa will spend $705 million for 15 embraer e-175 jets. the article claims that they are for
one of aa's regional carriers.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

ok, that's iah. unfortunately, the numbers are what they are and the dot/flying public that complains don't want to see an asterisk.

my contention is that aa does too much regional jet flying and is missing out on the premium passengers that dl and ua are cleaning up on.

Regional routes are what saved US Airways. It's not so much the amount of regional flying as it is not having a balanced mix of flights.

 

[Tim Nelson]

“Mr” Nelson if you want people to read the article you should consider posting it along with your comment. Oh and BTW if you actually read the article rather than just mentioning it you would read that that the minimum was waived in two other locations as well.

https://www.seattletimes.com/busine...-as-sea-tac-law-leaves-a-confusing-patchwork/

Now any chance you may have something new or original to discuss here?

View attachment 13548

Huh? So I was answering a specific poster by simply acknowledging that his specifically mentioned comment about McGee was true.
Thanks for posting the article, yes it does mention that there are other waivers as well. A closer read would be the McGee contract which has over one dozen waivers, including ewr.
Sadly, One quote in the article is glaring,
"To hire workers, Alaska will have to keep up with McDonald’s.

“We are currently in negotiations,” Carlson said. “We are looking to raise the wages substantially.”

 

[WeAAsles]

Huh? So I was answering a specific poster by simply acknowledging that his specifically mentioned comment about McGee was true.
Thanks for posting the article, yes it does mention that there are other waivers as well. A closer read would be the McGee contract which has over one dozen waivers, including ewr.
Sadly, One quote in the article is glaring,
"To hire workers, Alaska will have to keep up with McDonald’s.

“We are currently in negotiations,” Carlson said. “We are looking to raise the wages substantially.”

No huh’s. You huh way too often BTW. And while the subject that you continually try to push here that no one else pays any attention to is interesting to me, even though you slaughter the story to death. It really has no place here in this thread at all, whatsoever.

We don’t work for Alaska Airlines FYI.

Huh?

 

[WeAAsles]

I agree with you. With the unionization of ground crews around the US and places like home (Port Authority) raising minimums to $19, the model will change. Delta is insourcing more so I see a trend slowly going back into the mainline fold.

And the reason why it’s imperative IMO that you guys secure language giving you a fair ability to cross over or at least be able to fill a vacancy in the Mainline system if you chose.

You have to realize (And I’m sure you do) that the second the Company announces a Station being opened to Mainline the transfer list is going to be full and our Members are going to take those positions leaving you guys high and dry.

Regional routes are what saved US Airways. It's not so much the amount of regional flying as it is not having a balanced mix of flights.

Exactly. The reality is that there are markets that don’t support Mainline traffic and would have too many empty seats if you threw in a 737 or 319.

Regional Airlines along with Trains, Busses, Cabs and Bicycles all serve as viable modes of transportation and satisfy needs.

 

[WeAAsles]

from what i understood when the city here made this a big deal, it only dealt with contractors of airlines (all airlines, let's say the company that does aa bus service or the cabin cleaners for an air france) and those working in gift shops/food service. companies/franchises that did business with the city to get these lucrative spots in an intl. airport. currently, i believe the minimum is $13.45/hr and must be $15/hr by 2020.

Actually there was an article written about it in the TWU Express how working together with the Company they did gain a higher starting wage in LGA and JFK to cover the new minimum wage law.

Don’t know if our bottom of the wage scale will fall below your minimum in ORD but it could be a nice little project for Brother Elvira to work on if it does.

as far as me? i wasn't a fueler. i worked for amr...different local. fuelers i know, were represented by 512 and paid dues to 512. these guys have more of a beef than me. at this moment, i couldn't tell you what class/craft the fuelers were. i can find out.

I’m sorry don’t know how I got it confused that I thought you were a fueler in the past.

My friend here was also with AMR services humping bags for the Sky Caps back in LGA. He was there for 3 years and that time did not reflect for any occupational Seniority when he joined us on the ramp.

BTW if Fuelers were a part of the Maintenance Class and Craft then that’s the reason why they didn’t gain any Fleet time while they performed that work.

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok this bit of news here falls in exactly for what I was talking about when it comes to cost of living and why I’m a 100% supporter that some locations in our system should have a COLA.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/business/amazon-hq2-cities.amp.html

This is NOT good news for the average blue collar worker as property values and rents are going to skyrocket not just in Queens but all over the Metropolitan area.

And if you already own a property your Taxes on that property are also going to skyrocket.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...n-long-island-city-rents-and-home-prices/amp/

 

[Tim Nelson]

No huh’s. You huh way too often BTW. And while the subject that you continually try to push here that no one else pays any attention to is interesting to me, even though you slaughter the story to death. It really has no place here in this thread at all, whatsoever.

We don’t work for Alaska Airlines FYI.

Huh?

i was replying to someone who understands how this industry works.
You never even understood how the United deal affected us and its impossible for you to understand how McGee, Envoy DGS is comparable. You, like most union pollyannas are more concerned with dues, thus you stand down on envoy but then mock DGS.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Ok this bit of news here falls in exactly for what I was talking about when it comes to cost of living and why I’m a 100% supporter that some locations in our system should have a COLA.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/business/amazon-hq2-cities.amp.html

This is NOT good news for the average blue collar worker as property values and rents are going to skyrocket not just in Queens but all over the Metropolitan area.

And if you already own a property your Taxes on that property are also going to skyrocket.

nobody cares about real estate in Queens. That post belongs elsewhere.

 

[T5towbar]

not always true. Airport minimums are superceded by "National" union contracts which keeps the minimum far below the "minimum".
I worked with reporters to expose this, and some newspapers wrote about it.

I don't think that will happen with the Port Authority. Cuomo; Murphy; and Baraka (both governors and the mayor of Newark) will see that any contractor or company (which will include UGS) will abide by that new airport scale. And with the new tax (for fuel) that the NJ Legislature wants to impose on UA, I'm quite sure that there are some negotiations ongoing, especially if it passes. And UA is trying a public relations blitz to defeat the tax. (This tax is supposed to help finance the extension of PATH directly to the Airport for one seat access to NYC.) And with the new Terminal One project going on, and UA wants the maximum amount of gates allowed so both parties wont to be on the best behavior about this. There has been a lot of contention between UA and the PA, but both of them need each other.

I know the handover from ABM (which does the Lavs; wheelchairs; and assisting our Customer Service agents) to UGS is supposed to be happening already, but there has been no news yet. So I'm assuming that they are trying to work to abide around the new airport minimums. Bottom line is that the price of labor is going up, whether companies like it or not.

You can thank (in the NYC area) the work of SEIU Local 32BJ for their ongoing struggles to make these airport minimums for the Port Authority happen.

 

[WeAAsles]

i was replying to someone who understands how this industry works.
You never even understood how the United deal affected us and its impossible for you to understand how McGee, Envoy DGS is comparable. You, like most union pollyannas are more concerned with dues, thus you stand down on envoy but then mock DGS.

nobody cares about real estate in Queens. That post belongs elsewhere.

Shoo. Go away. I’m enjoying the rare intelligent conversations going on here and you have no real need to interrupt that.

 

[T5towbar]

Ok this bit of news here falls in exactly for what I was talking about when it comes to cost of living and why I’m a 100% supporter that some locations in our system should have a COLA.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/business/amazon-hq2-cities.amp.html

This is NOT good news for the average blue collar worker as property values and rents are going to skyrocket not just in Queens but all over the Metropolitan area.

And if you already own a property your Taxes on that property are also going to skyrocket.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...n-long-island-city-rents-and-home-prices/amp/

People's rent are going to go up anyway next year, especially if you live in a multi family dwelling anyway.
Because of the "Great Heist of 2018" (the tax reform bill), many homeowners will lose their SALT (State And Local Tax deduction), so of course rents will have to go up in order to cover for the loss (especially in high tax areas like NY; NJ; CA; CT, etc.)
This is something that no one talks about..... But my property taxes will be going up next year, and I (and many others) will not benefit from this tax scam.

 

[Kev3188]

Exactly. The reality is that there are markets that don’t support Mainline traffic and would have too many empty seats if you threw in a 737 or 319.

Regional Airlines along with Trains, Busses, Cabs and Bicycles all serve as viable modes of transportation and satisfy needs.

Interesting article from the Cranky Flier blog that touches on some issues with AA's network, as well as some of the points Crema DiLemone has been making:

https://crankyflier.com/2018/11/12/so-just-what-is-wrong-with-american/

BTW if Fuelers were a part of the Maintenance Class and Craft then that’s the reason why they didn’t gain any Fleet time while they performed that work.

FWIW, fuelers at UA were considered part of the maintenance class and craft. Rampers did the work (both ramp and AMT's were IAM). When the AMT's left the IAM for AMFA, the rampers lost that work. I believe it was then outsourced most places (if not everywhere)?

 

[WeAAsles]

People's rent are going to go up anyway next year, especially if you live in a multi family dwelling anyway.
Because of the "Great Heist of 2018" (the tax reform bill), many homeowners will lose their SALT (State And Local Tax deduction), so of course rents will have to go up in order to cover for the loss (especially in high tax areas like NY; NJ; CA; CT, etc.)
This is something that no one talks about..... But my property taxes will be going up next year, and I (and many others) will not benefit from this tax scam.

Oh plenty do talk about it. Those lost write offs in those high cost of living areas that are subject to State and Local taxes seem like they were almost a punishment as they’re all Democratic leaning locations.

They’re also popular destinations that the 1% prefer to reside and can force a migration of those not in their orbit leaving more room for those 50,000 Tech workers coming in from Amazon?

 

[WeAAsles]

Interesting article from the Cranky Flier blog that touches on some issues with AA's network, as well as some of the points Crema DiLemone has been making:

https://crankyflier.com/2018/11/12/so-just-what-is-wrong-with-american/



FWIW, fuelers at UA were considered part of the maintenance class and craft. Rampers did the work (both ramp and AMT's were IAM). When the AMT's left the IAM for AMFA, the rampers lost that work. I believe it was then outsourced most places (if not everywhere)?

Thanks you for sharing the new Cranky musings. I always enjoy reading his take on things. (Not Adam Levine Weinberg’s)

If Fuelers were M&R at UAL then they must have been the same at AA. That would mean it was M&R who threw them under the Airbus and gave away the work they used to perform.

And if they weren’t classified as Fleet then of course they should never have gained any Fleet Seniority for their time pumping gas.