American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

I agree. There’s ZERO reason why LAA should be stuck with only 17 stations while we at DL have 43 (soon to be 45). Those dopey flight thresholds are a weight on the entire industry.

That dopey flight threshold change making it worse than it was here at LAA TWU was due to having to vote on a Bankruptcy agreement. We were also forced to vote to close multiple cities through that process. Terrible thing to experience this thing called Bankruptcy. Don’t know if you’ve ever experienced it yourself?

Now I ABSOLUTELY would like to regain some old lost cities and at the very least at least staff where there are in house CWA PSA.

Numbers: Very small cities don’t have a huge staff and as a matter of fact when MEM was closed through the BK it had only 13 FSC staffed members. Let’s average out restaffing at 25 and say we’re going for 15 more bringing us up to a total of 55 stations staffed.

25 X 15 = 375 Ramp Agents/ FSC to staff.
Again currently AA has 18,000 Ramp Agents/ FSC staffed.

 

[Talos]

i'd say that they will have to raise the dividend and now is their chance with jetfuel windfall 2.0

It is a major windfall for them. This mgmt used it before for stock buy backs. We'll see what they do now. Maybe pay down some debt, or maybe buy back more stock. One thing that seems remote is taking care of employees. It will be interesting to see.

 

[Kev3188]

That dopey flight threshold change making it worse than it was here at LAA TWU was due to having to vote on a Bankruptcy agreement. We were also forced to vote to close multiple cities through that process. Terrible thing to experience this thing called Bankruptcy. Don’t know if you’ve ever experienced it yourself?

Now I ABSOLUTELY would like to regain some old lost cities and at the very least at least staff where there are in house CWA PSA.

Numbers: Very small cities don’t have a huge staff and as a matter of fact when MEM was closed through the BK it had only 13 FSC staffed members. Let’s average out restaffing at 25 and say we’re going for 15 more bringing us up to a total of 55 stations staffed.

25 X 15 = 375 Ramp Agents/ FSC to staff.
Again currently AA has 18,000 Ramp Agents/ FSC staffed.

Dave—

Pointing to BK as an excuse for your NC is weak. We went through the same wringer, and came away with a threshold in our contract that was a fraction of yours.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The 10% number you are quoting I suppose comes from the Company? That may be the case in an immediate signing but over time due to wage and job erosion that number dwindles. (I expect you to ignore this in your responses)

I thought it was Sito and the IAM holding things up? Now you say it’s Gary Peterson? You need to make up your mind who you want to paint all these negative pictures of?

Catering and Lavs or Deicing for that matter are not lost until the Union Negotiators agree to accept that language first and then pass it on for our final decision. Do you have any documented proof that Brother Garcia is sacrificing any Fleet items in exchange for Maintenance? Don’t forget as the AMT’s like to point out the TWU is a Fleet Service Union (2 of the top 5 officers are AA FSC background)

Oh and we have no Union bosses. If you had won any of your elections would you have considered yourself to be a Union boss? If you considered others to be Union bosses cause they don’t do what you want then you yourself would also have been a Union Boss.

P.S. You haven’t lost your Medical rates either until that’s signed off on as accepted. If you think what the Company offers is all we can ever get then you would have made a lousy Negotiator and the Company would have laughed their asses off at how quickly you folded.

Sorry Weez but we have union bosses. Nobody elected the Association and although I'm not a member, neither are you. Stop lying. Show me your union card for the Association?

Yes, we unfortunately lost catering now. Read your own updates. After I told everyone that there would be a last offer presented and it will include all scope for fleet, the union ITSELF admitted that that particular offer was made but it was quickly pulled off the table when the union wanted to altar it. That is true. Uncle Jerry made it VERY CLEAR according to Fly that he wasn't in there to D around and that Parker wanted to settle fleet. He offered all current scope, just like the union said in its update, and he did pull the offer and walk out after the monkeys wanted more.

Now catering is gone but not forgotten. LUS health is gone, unfortunately, just because the union has no leverage at all. And if things drag past the scheduled negotiations, Fly said that the mediators made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that the things would be put on ice. Specifically, it was noted to Gary and Alex. I don't think Sito was there but I could be wrong. I was told that it was made clear to Alex and Gary only for whatever reason.

And the offer is 10% over Delta and United in total compensation. It still will have more scope and that is what gives the company the leverage with the mediators. Peterson will lose scope in MX and no doubt many MX will be pissed off since his called shot "No more Scope Loss" will end up a lie. But, American will keep about 20% more scope than United and of course Southwest and Delta.

Do I agree with all of the above? I want more but unlike you, I also have to recognize the truth that the IAM already put out a flyer saying it could not strike and that if things dragged on, its members would lose more (See United). And I still would support stronger negotiations if I had the leverage of the merger, but we don't since your handlers pissed that away in line item negotiations instead of the JCBA they promised.

It's a mess but the contract needs to be voted on. It will pass by 98% no doubt. I'll push a yes vote as well since the next one will be worse.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You know those 17 Stations currently hold over 10,000 FSC’s.

Even with your 43 (soon to be 45) Delta Management owned Stations do you have over 10,000 well paid workers in them?

BTW adding in the total at AA there are 40 currently held cities. IAM has more cities but again less workers at about 8,000.

The Association is ((( Negotiating ))) for even more cities to be opened. Like all ((( Negotiations ))) we’ll see what happens?

Delta has over 16,000 permanent fleet service. The freedom and flexibility it has from not having a union wanting to squeeze it for an IAM Pension, etc allows them about 5,000 permanent cargo workers. Your handlers gave up most cargo and went for a pay raise bump in bankruptcy to whack dozens of stations. But you aren't alone, the IAM also whacked dozens of stations and even eliminated the flight threashhold for all large stations insomuch that IAH has 29 flights a day but is non union. Read the contract before you make stupid statements. Notice: we kept 12 small stations which are about 400 dues payers, by waiving workin RSW, and IAH and any other station that may spike flight activity.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I agree. There’s ZERO reason why LAA should be stuck with only 17 stations while we at DL have 43 (soon to be 45). Those dopey flight thresholds are a weight on the entire industry.

Kev, we have had 2 deals since bankruptcy and the IAM agreed to eliminate union stations that are not presently union. That means that even though IAH has 29 flights a day, and RSW has a boatload, we won't get that work. So, Parker has the Association all burning oxygen in a small pond. He is free to expand IAH or anywhere else that is not currently union, regardless of threshold.

Now, don't that suck?

 

[WeAAsles]

Dave—

Pointing to BK as an excuse for your NC is weak. We went through the same wringer, and came away with a threshold in our contract that was a fraction of yours.

I am most certainly not making any excuses for my Negotiators during a very tough decision of which even NYer was one of them. Our language was how OUR Negotiators chose to craft the required cuts of the Court.

Your Negotiators chose a different route which quite obviously you agree with more than what our guys chose (Or were forced into)

It saddens me that you can’t accept a group doing things differently than you.

Your majority passed your BK agreements and our majority passed ours. That’s that.

 

[737823]

I agree. There’s ZERO reason why LAA should be stuck with only 17 stations while we at DL have 43 (soon to be 45). Those dopey flight thresholds are a weight on the entire industry.

What’s lost on many people is the 17 LAA stations are large stations with hundreds and in some cases thousands working at each. LUS has many points with like 30 people many part time in places like ONT and PVD.

The IAM agreed to seven (7) stations at UA, not even protecting all hubs at the time as CLE wasn’t included.

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

Dave—

Pointing to BK as an excuse for your NC is weak. We went through the same wringer, and came away with a threshold in our contract that was a fraction of yours.

And Kevin—

Again I ask and please show me the courtesy of a response as I would absolutely show you.

How many Ramp Employees do you have working in your 43 (soon to be 45) cities and who are receiving great wages and benefits?

We have over 10,000 that fit that metric in our 17 cities.

 

[737823]

I agree. There’s ZERO reason why LAA should be stuck with only 17 stations while we at DL have 43 (soon to be 45). Those dopey flight thresholds are a weight on the entire industry.

http://www.airlineforums.com/thread...-personal-attacks.57485/page-407#post-1188349

And I can recall the post but in late 2010 after the decertification you claimed DL would farm everything except hubs and LGA out within 12 months.

And then you complained no new points have opened which DL has now done:

http://www.airlineforums.com/threads/question-regarding-unions-for-delta-amts.57855/#post-1131313

Not mention all the hiring in growth markets like ATL, BOS, LGA, LAX, JFK and SEA

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

And Kevin—

Again I ask and please show me the courtesy of a response as I would absolutely show you.

How many Ramp Employees do you have working in your 43 (soon to be 45) cities and who are receiving great wages and benefits?

We have over 10,000 that fit that metric in our 17 cities.

About 12-14000 ish.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

It is a major windfall for them. This mgmt used it before for stock buy backs. We'll see what they do now. Maybe pay down some debt, or maybe buy back more stock. One thing that seems remote is taking care of employees. It will be interesting to see.

yes...share with the shareholders, not us.

aa still had $1.65 billion ready to rock and roll for stock buy-backs oct. 2018 - dec. 2020, i believe. so, money is already committed and allocated for share buy-backs.

maybe they'll add more? i believe it's time to raise the dividend and match delta. $1 more dividend per share off apprx. 440-420 million shares/float will fluctuate lower with buy-backs. say $450 million for 2019.

if oil stays in mid $50s/bbl, they'll make that back up in 1 quarter. today, oil was $45-$46/bbl.

happy times at hq. all this does is paper over the cracks they have caused.

again, the shame is aa does NOT want to share any of this with us. stingy. maybe they can buy more pizzas and feed our regional workers. circus-like, they need a treat (pizza) to preform a trick (load and ramp bags). some are smart, they eat pizza and let others do the tricks.

maybe we will put money into aa R&D and develope a new revolutionary RJ, the super-duper RJ 5000, that can fly from the east coast to lhr? just team up with the scientists from the popeil laboratories, those that brought us state-of-the-art potato peelers and fishing rods in the 70s.

 

[WeAAsles]

About 12-14000 ish.

Ok so I think I can flesh out a story here that you guys at Delta do much more with much less.

Out of your 13,000 for 43 (soon to be 45) cities I believe you do your commuter work? (We don’t TWU) 40% of your workforce is Ready Reserve (Ours isn’t TWU) and you have around 30% Part Time (Same as TWU)

Now Delta is also a little smaller on Aircraft I believe so that also has to be factored in and you gain some points from that.

Combined TWU/IAM Association has 40 Stations with over 18,000 currently. So around 5000 more people working here.

Now having more locations to choose to work in is absolutely a nice thing and I hope to see those choices become available it still doesn’t negate the fact that compared to your Airline we have a lot more work available for my Class and Craft than your available jobs. (Always Ready Reserve positions open though)

 

[WeAAsles]

Sorry Weez but we have union bosses. Nobody elected the Association and although I'm not a member, neither are you. Stop lying. Show me your union card for the Association?

Yes, we unfortunately lost catering now. Read your own updates. After I told everyone that there would be a last offer presented and it will include all scope for fleet, the union ITSELF admitted that that particular offer was made but it was quickly pulled off the table when the union wanted to altar it. That is true. Uncle Jerry made it VERY CLEAR according to Fly that he wasn't in there to D around and that Parker wanted to settle fleet. He offered all current scope, just like the union said in its update, and he did pull the offer and walk out after the monkeys wanted more.

Now catering is gone but not forgotten. LUS health is gone, unfortunately, just because the union has no leverage at all. And if things drag past the scheduled negotiations, Fly said that the mediators made it CRYSTAL CLEAR that the things would be put on ice. Specifically, it was noted to Gary and Alex. I don't think Sito was there but I could be wrong. I was told that it was made clear to Alex and Gary only for whatever reason.

And the offer is 10% over Delta and United in total compensation. It still will have more scope and that is what gives the company the leverage with the mediators. Peterson will lose scope in MX and no doubt many MX will be pissed off since his called shot "No more Scope Loss" will end up a lie. But, American will keep about 20% more scope than United and of course Southwest and Delta.

Do I agree with all of the above? I want more but unlike you, I also have to recognize the truth that the IAM already put out a flyer saying it could not strike and that if things dragged on, its members would lose more (See United). And I still would support stronger negotiations if I had the leverage of the merger, but we don't since your handlers pissed that away in line item negotiations instead of the JCBA they promised.

It's a mess but the contract needs to be voted on. It will pass by 98% no doubt. I'll push a yes vote as well since the next one will be worse.

Sito “The Monkey” (See you can’t help calling people juvenile names. So mighty Christian of you) asked me to give you this personally.

"In warm appreciation of all your hard work and dedication this year, I’d like to extend my best wishes for a happy holiday season to all IAM members and their families. May you and your loved ones have a hearty, festive holiday season.

I’d also like to acknowledge all IAM members who will be working tirelessly during the holidays, moving travelers and goods safely worldwide. You are making happy celebrations possible for millions of families."


Sito Pantoja, General Vice President

 

[PIEDMONT784]

Because they didn't listen. I was a professionally trained organizer with a Masters Education in culture development, but they put Ira Levy in charge of the F/A group, and Tom Reagon in charge of the Delta Ramp Group. I was in charge of AirTran and United's organizing plan. Reagon is awful. He is such a tool screaming about the IAM Pension and it killed any idea of a victory. And they didn't properly develop inside committee relationships. Reagon and the "union organizers' only worked 8 hours and went home. It was a job. Not a belief or care in the word. Some organizers wanted the Delta ramp campaign to keep going because it was AND NOW IS their constant meal ticket.

The F/A was lost because of the same thing. It was a job. Nobody built any trust because nobody listened. Since my plans, the IAM has lost every single organizing attempt in the airlines. In fact, they can't even get enough cards. I would have had Delta ramp and Delta F/A organized in 6 months. All my plans worked and won. 40,000 members. I knew people's first names and I didn't sit in my office, I was 24/7 and knew the names of the children of our in house commitees. The IAM isn't believable so you have to personify the campaigns.

Presently, they are just doing the Delta ramp and F/A campaign to satisfy the AFLCIO constitution. No real intention to organize.

Blahhh .... Blahh ..... Blahhh .... Sow discord (Rant Rant) ---> Suggest Union Leaders are useless and overpaid (Blahh Blahh) ---> Suggest voting out the Union and Association (Yack Yack) ---> COMPANY WINS! --- (REPEAT, OVER, AND OVER) Yack... Yack... Yack... I did this.... I did that... so forth and so on...