American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[CremaDiLimone]

They are insourcing but it's still ready reserve.

delta explains that the operations will be more efficient. aa's MBR is double and half more than dl's.

this is why aa is a firm #3, out of the big 3. it took ua over 25 years to get out of 3rd place.

 

[Kev3188]

company lost a FAA dispute over cuba with southwest...company is now in a fight with united over china flights 'dormant' out of ord.

at the same time, united, which earned more money than us in the last quarter, wants to fly a 2nd ewr-pvg...with a 777-300, not a 787.

this, after aa complained how jet fuel prices made ord-asia a loser. united has 90 flights a week to china and they earned more money than us. japan airlines will double it's nrt-ord flights next summer.

aa is the only airline that can't make money to asia?

the america west/us air big shooters show us all the time they may be in over their heads.

At DL, we continually hear how Asia is where we need to be. We are also adding MSP-PVG (subject to government approval) in 2020, using an A350.

delta explains that the operations will be more efficient. aa's MBR is double and half more than dl's.

this is why aa is a firm #3, out of the big 3. it took ua over 25 years to get out of 3rd place.

DGS currently handles us in RDU. I have heard a few times that annual turnover can exceed 100%. Just having a stable workforce will help immensely.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

by the time all the asinine decisions made by my company came back to bite it, we'll be looooong gone.

what is totally ironic is that with oil coming back down, mr. magoo can run my airline and it will be extremely profitable.

aa pilots on the company website question why aa stopped flying 777s out of ord and exclusively use 787 now. aa big shots go on the company website and tell us that ord-china was losing tens of millions a year, while ua has 90 flights a week to this loser...and ua earned more money than aa in the last quarter.

ord to asia is such a loser that japan airlines wants to lose even more money and double the amount of it's nrt-ord flights next summer??

aa mngt. throws it's weight around against the assoc., but it's getting it's a$$ royally kicked by dl and ua.

 

[WeAAsles]

I do not doubt you Weez. However I can not recall hearing anything from these professionals nor about any of their participation in these talks.

Here’s just a part of the TWU International LM2’s for 2017.

 

[B737 driver]

That is how it is done. Great move by APFA.
What is sad when our union hired all the specialist, attorneys as well as nego professionals and the economist AMFA got slammed for wasting all the dues money by all the AMFA haters (teamster lovers). To this day there are some on here that still say the union is just throws it's money away with the Seham attorneys. The reality of it is that AMFA uses their attorneys to better represent the membership. They were used
to the teamsters just letting everything go in the past.
The economist was the biggie in ours proving the company wrong many times and showing them exactly WHY we were asking for what we were asking and he also showed how un-greedy and well deserved the asks were, not just pulling numbers out of the sky sort of speak.
Good move by APFA, money well spent on the memberships issues indeed...

Hate to tell you for all the money spent resulted in a failed contract, and draining our reserves. You can have all the experts in the world. Company still has a cost they want to pay, and are happy to let you spend the money. 27,000 members have a lot more money than 2500.

 

[WeAAsles]

DGS currently handles us in RDU. I have heard a few times that annual turnover can exceed 100%. Just having a stable workforce will help immensely.

This is the consequences of a tightening labor market where companies are having more and more difficulties filling positions. Particularly positions that offer no hope schitty wages and benefits.

I think the industry is going to start seeing this occur more and more.

 

[WeAAsles]

Hate to tell you for all the money spent resulted in a failed contract, and draining our reserves. You can have all the experts in the world. Company still has a cost they want to pay, and are happy to let you spend the money. 27,000 members have a lot more money than 2500.

The TWU alone has around 120,000 Members and the cost of hiring professionals to assist in Negotiations comes out of the General funds.

Irregardless if anyone considers their particular Negotiations to be or have resulted in a failure (Personal opinions) you still need those professionals to cost out items and to put everything into Legal language once you reach final agreements.

 

[AANOTOK]

Would have been nice if the fight for our TWU equity would have come from the "General Funds"
Maybe if we would have "negotiated" with the early out folks we could have used proceeds from the general funds and it would have been cheaper just to give them something instead of paying lawyers millions to give them nothing.
I believe we are suppose to receive something soon on the breakdown of the equity. Hopefully we will see exactly how much of my equity the Lawyers raked in.

 

[WeAAsles]

Would have been nice if the fight for our TWU equity would have come from the "General Funds"
Maybe if we would have "negotiated" with the early out folks we could have used proceeds from the general funds and it would have been cheaper just to give them something instead of paying lawyers millions to give them nothing.
I believe we are suppose to receive something soon on the breakdown of the equity. Hopefully we will see exactly how much of my equity the Lawyers raked in.

It’s naive to think in any way that no matter how well it was explained to the EBO people that they would not have still sued to try and get some extra money. The reality being just by how the case was presented was that these people thought they were entitled to something because of what they gave up in 2003.

The Lawyers who defended us in the case against the EBO people did not make Millions. You can go look at the LM2’s there as well and I also believe in the past I’ve provided that snapshot as well.

To even consider settling would have meant had they accepted any offer would have came out of what you and I were owed for our losses moving forward from the Bankruptcy (Phuck that chit man)

Since the Equity was solely being issued to TWU AA Represented members and had ZERO to do with any others the TWU represented outside this Company of course no costs should have been bourn out of the General funds since the General funds would receive none of the proceeds from those AAL Shares. (Basically this had nothing to do with Ralph the Bus Driver)

Once the “Labor Group” (Name of the Company that put the formula together) comes out with a full accounting you’re going to find that the total cost was less than 1% of the total not counting the cost of these last 2 distributions (Thank AA and Computershare for that cost)

You can also look at the investment fees charged for holding the monies for us on those very same LM2’s. Essentially saying that much of the accounting of those holdings is already publicly available for anyone who actually really wants to look and figure it out for themselves.

 

[WeAAsles]

This is the consequences of a tightening labor market where companies are having more and more difficulties filling positions. Particularly positions that offer no hope schitty wages and benefits.

I think the industry is going to start seeing this occur more and more.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bl...s-are-replacing-teenagers-at-fast-food-joints

 

[WeAAsles]

Now here’s a picture of the investment fees charged for our Equity Reserve.

I purposely am leaving out the financial part to the right so anyone who is interested can look it up for themselves. (It’s not as difficult as one might think)

 

[B737 driver]

The TWU alone has around 120,000 Members and the cost of hiring professionals to assist in Negotiations comes out of the General funds.

Irregardless if anyone considers their particular Negotiations to be or have resulted in a failure (Personal opinions) you still need those professionals to cost out items and to put everything into Legal language once you reach final agreements.

Of course you need professionals in negotiations, my point was it doesn't make it any faster, or more than what the company final numbers are.

 

[WeAAsles]

Of course you need professionals in negotiations, my point was it doesn't make it any faster, or more than what the company final numbers are.

Ok driver but the Company doesn’t exactly telegraph what their supposed final numbers are or where they would draw their line in the sand. So those professionals are the ones hired to try to figure out where that point might be.

The wasted years to get to that point are now the norm for all Represented groups in the Airlines though unfortunately. (And they feed on and encourage the Members frustrations)

 

[conehead777]

If the TWU had put contract language in there that equity was not for early out we wouldn’t have had to loose any money at all.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

financial analysts for investment banks do much of the work...and that work is relatively free.

for 2019, analysts avg. projection is that aa will earn .65 cents a share more than aa earned in 2018. one analyst has aa earning about $1.10 more a share.

in other words...we're talking aa will earn hundreds of millions more next year than this year. factor in lower fuel, it could get into the billion(s).

given that knowledge, we'd have a strong leg to stand on if the company cries poor to the mediator. of course, the mediator can't do nor impose anything.

don't let them cry poor.