American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[CremaDiLimone]

U.S. Oil Prices Rise, but End 2018 Down 25%
Recent data showed U.S. inventories of crude oil and gasoline above the five-year average

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/oil-follows-global-stocks-higher-11546254472

i saw on jetwire that jet fuel was at $1.56 a gallon. 3-4 months ago, it was at $2.26 a gallon.

aa was/is on pace for apprx. 1 billion gallons of jet fuel (just mainline) for the 4th quarter. toss in a few hundred million gallons for RJs for the 4th quarter and the additional income numbers will be staggering.

this late 2018 profit sharing windfall for dl, ua and wn employees will only add to just about every single aa union employee's cynicism and anger towards the company.

i remember posts predicting bankruptcy? the company will probably earn around $3 billion pre-tax, for all of 2018.

and this was a 'challenging' year for aa, after the first 3 quarters; aa only recouped 40% of 2018's jet fuel price spike, while ua was at 90% and dl at 80%.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

And I’m sorry but what you call a dues grab I call earning almost $10.00 more per hour since AA first filed for Bankruptcy which is an over 40% pay raise (WOW DAMN 40%)

And you’ve gotten an around 50% raise since AA first filed for Bankruptcy. (WOW DAMN 50%)

i remember bringing this up; which airline workers financially benefited more from this merger and which workers will keep 'ancillary seniority' and this was the secret that lus posters and you kept under the rug. i remember, "we all benefited". that is true, but, it isn't exactly true, is it? some (minority) benefited more.

the us air guys in my station were going on about $20/hr while i was at $24+/hr and finally it was explained that lus in hubs were earning more than lus in stations.

kudos to all that kept silent but knew the truth.

 

[Tim Nelson]

There never was a last offer Tim. There were incomplete online offers made directly to the Membership but those offers were never formally made to our Negotiators.

But anyway let’s ride with this. What Scope concessions on the LUS side have been agreed to? I haven’t heard anyone say to me that SCOPE has been agreed to? But I guess in “your own mind” it has.

There are no TA’s on Scope yet Tim.

And I’m sorry but what you call a dues grab I call earning almost $10.00 more per hour since AA first filed for Bankruptcy which is an over 40% pay raise (WOW DAMN 40%)

And you’ve gotten an around 50% raise since AA first filed for Bankruptcy. (WOW DAMN 50%)

I doubt you would find one idiot (Well maybe a few idiots) who would give back those raises to regain the supposed strength of cross utilization.

Tim you do know that LAA and LUS didn’t overlap much and it was why the Creditors loved the idea of the merger. And LUS Rampers are still separated here so I don’t know what you’re talking about? Have they put you in the mix in ORD yet? No.

Tim are you a voting member of the IAM or did you voluntarily concede that right?

no doubt you would have received the money anyways but they took the bait as opposed to waiting and agreeing to a jcba instead of line item negotiations.
Scope and a comprehensive was offered to fleet. It was a goodie and included all current scope but the association didnt want to settle without the mx according to fly. So they are using fleet as a pawn.
Company is not goin to increase anything. Its actually fine with you having an awful contract.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

Lmao
You state on your post “ from what I heard”
Ok enough said!

Timmy, and friends are like a f-ing soap opera... you can tune out for years, and then start watching again, and pick the plot line right up where you left off. Maybe some of the actors look older... maybe some new additions, but still the same old chit!

Blahhh .... Blahh ..... Blahhh .... Sow discord (Rant Rant) ---> Suggest Union Leaders are useless and overpaid (Blahh Blahh) ---> Suggest voting out the Union (Yack Yack) ---> COMPANY WINS! --- (REPEAT, OVER, AND OVER) Yack... Yack... Yack... I did this.... I did that... I'm smarter than they are... so forth and so on...

 

[WeAAsles]

i remember bringing this up; which airline workers financially benefited more from this merger and which workers will keep 'ancillary seniority' and this was the secret that lus posters and you kept under the rug. i remember, "we all benefited". that is true, but, it isn't exactly true, is it? some (minority) benefited more.

the us air guys in my station were going on about $20/hr while i was at $24+/hr and finally it was explained that lus in hubs were earning more than lus in stations.

kudos to all that kept silent but knew the truth.

Crema nothing was kept under the rug. The LUS people were at a little over $20 when AA filed BK and we were at a little over $21. But that was basically a wash IMO since they paid (pay) less for Medical.

We only went up to $24 because we gave away the Cow in BK. Not literally but figuratively. Our own concessions funded our raises.

FYI if you remember at first with the 20% giveback we were going to actually lose about .40 cents per hour. When that ask got changed to 17% is when we took it back in cash as wage increases.

LUS was still in Negotiations so of course due to the merger they were going to join our wages. Then we all benefited in Oct 2016.

It’s basically semantics how we all ended up at roughly the same point on the road. (Give or take a couple of bucks)

 

[WeAAsles]

no doubt you would have received the money anyways but they took the bait as opposed to waiting and agreeing to a jcba instead of line item negotiations.
Scope and a comprehensive was offered to fleet. It was a goodie and included all current scope but the association didnt want to settle without the mx according to fly. So they are using fleet as a pawn.
Company is not goin to increase anything. Its actually fine with you having an awful contract.

The reason we all got the raises and let’s be honest and fair about this but WE rode the coattails of the AMT’s.

The records show that there were an unusually LARGE number of Aircraft writeups prior to the raises being offered. (Time to sooth the savage Beast)

“Mr” Nelson instead of holding it against the AMT’s that maybe we’re all going to have to wait for each other to conclude (No evidence that we are anyway) perhaps you may want to thank them for the wages that you are currently enjoying.

Edit: Oh and I earned somewhere near the realm of around $75,000 in pay and benefits for the year. So I have a very hard time fathoming how you say I have an awful contract? (Tell that to the LUS crew right next to me who never seems to get a Lunch? Read your awful contract)

 

[swamt]

Holy sh*t, that was a lot of deflecting from CB!

Not just CB. Tim also deflected. So what does this tell you. Neither one will answer unless the other one does. Pretty sad when you have grown men on here acting like 5 year olds and one of them is at the table neg.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Not just CB. Tim also deflected. So what does this tell you. Neither one will answer unless the other one does. Pretty sad when you have grown men on here acting like 5 year olds and one of them is at the table neg.

deflected what, things he asked that arent true and were never discussed?

 

[Tim Nelson]

The reason we all got the raises and let’s be honest and fair about this but WE rode the coattails of the AMT’s.

The records show that there were an unusually LARGE number of Aircraft writeups prior to the raises being offered. (Time to sooth the savage Beast)

“Mr” Nelson instead of holding it against the AMT’s that maybe we’re all going to have to wait for each other to conclude (No evidence that we are anyway) perhaps you may want to thank them for the wages that you are currently enjoying.

Edit: Oh and I earned somewhere near the realm of around $75,000 in pay and benefits for the year. So I have a very hard time fathoming how you say I have an awful contract? (Tell that to the LUS crew right next to me who never seems to get a Lunch? Read your awful contract)

huh?
Um, no.
The mechanics are on our coattail and are stopping progress for fleet and amt's.
They have to compete globally since nafta, we dont. While their craft has been cut by 80% ours has expanded.

As far as the money, parker baited the association with the Dues For Cross U deal. That was the only leverage we had. The mx didnt do any slowdown. We completed 99% of all scheduled. Look at the numbers and stop listening to the underwear bandit.

 

[WeAAsles]

huh?
Um, no.
The mechanics are on our coattail and are stopping progress for fleet and amt's.
They have to compete globally since nafta, we dont. While their craft has been cut by 80% ours has expanded.

As far as the money, parker baited the association with the Dues For Cross U deal. That was the only leverage we had. The mx didnt do any slowdown. We completed 99% of all scheduled. Look at the numbers and stop listening to the underwear bandit.

Coming in last (6th) behind all your major rivals is not exactly something to brag about.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...t-to-worst-ranking-the-10-major-airlines.aspx

And perhaps you need to talk to the scheduling Manager in your Station and ask him or her if they have received the full value from cross utilization yet?

BTW Tim although yes the AMT’s have to compete globally as far as OH goes they still have to have Line Mechanics for issues where the Aircraft can’t get off the ground to fly to El Salvador.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Coming in last (6th) behind all your major rivals is not exactly something to brag about.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...t-to-worst-ranking-the-10-major-airlines.aspx

And perhaps you need to talk to the scheduling Manager in your Station and ask him or her if they have received the full value from cross utilization yet?

BTW Tim although yes the AMT’s have to compete globally as far as OH goes they still have to have Line Mechanics for issues where the Aircraft can’t get off the ground to fly to El Salvador.

it wasnt nothing wow. If there were a few mx who did a slowdown i didnt notice and management certainly paid no mind as it prolly was just discounted as collateral damage of being organized. If it was a "wow" slowdown then the company would have just given the union the massive bill..I didnt see any evidence of a slowdown in ord as we usually work together and have a good workforce. I doubt few here listen to petersen if petersen commanded a slowdown. AMP has all these guys signed up.

 

[WeAAsles]

it wasnt nothing wow. If there were a few mx who did a slowdown i didnt notice and management certainly paid no mind as it prolly was just discounted as collateral damage of being organized. If it was a "wow" slowdown then the company would have just given the union the massive bill..I didnt see any evidence of a slowdown in ord as we usually work together and have a good workforce.

Never said anyone authorized or condoned a slowdown Tim. People aren’t drones who just abide by the whims of anyone who thinks they control a joystick. But people do get angry and start to express their anger in their own unique ways. And anger was being expressed despite whatever it is you pretend to think.

And I deleted your last two sentences because they aren’t worthy of my time.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Crema nothing was kept under the rug. The LUS people were at a little over $20 when AA filed BK and we were at a little over $21. But that was basically a wash IMO since they paid (pay) less for Medical.

We only went up to $24 because we gave away the Cow in BK. Not literally but figuratively. Our own concessions funded our raises.

FYI if you remember at first with the 20% giveback we were going to actually lose about .40 cents per hour. When that ask got changed to 17% is when we took it back in cash as wage increases.

LUS was still in Negotiations so of course due to the merger they were going to join our wages. Then we all benefited in Oct 2016.

It’s basically semantics how we all ended up at roughly the same point on the road. (Give or take a couple of bucks)

well, i'm not looking to pick on you...i believe you played and still play the role of the bridge over troubled waters..trying to ease both airline groups into a synchronized harmony of happiness and striving/fighting for a common trophy. as far as merging, my main beef was the seniority angle.

my memory is fuzzy, but i'm sure i was earning more than $21/hr in 2011. i (we) went from $24+/hr to $19+/hr in 2003.

from 2003-2011, we only got $2 in hourly wages?

as far as going forward, aa can't cry poor to the mediator. i suppose they can and as long as aa drags this out, i will pray for binding arbitration in the end. an arbitrator can hurt us with scope, but he will rip open the company in regards to profit sharing. taking a can opener to a flimsy tin can.

the company's billions threatened. not for the shareholders or the top execs., but for the employees they show contempt towards.

is this what the company really wants? to save tens of millions, the chance of losing hundreds of millions?

 

[WeAAsles]

well, i'm not looking to pick on you...i believe you played and still play the role of the bridge over troubled waters..trying to ease both airline groups into a synchronized harmony of happiness and striving/fighting for a common trophy. as far as merging, my main beef was the seniority angle.

my memory is fuzzy, but i'm sure i was earning more than $21/hr in 2011. i (we) went from $24+/hr to $19+/hr in 2003.

from 2003-2011, we only got $2 in hourly wages?

as far as going forward, aa can't cry poor to the mediator. i suppose they can and as long as aa drags this out, i will pray for binding arbitration in the end. an arbitrator can hurt us with scope, but he will rip open the company in regards to profit sharing. taking a can opener to a flimsy tin can.

the company's billions threatened. not for the shareholders or the top execs., but for the employees they show contempt towards.

is this what the company really wants? to save tens of millions, the chance of losing hundreds of millions?

You’re right Crema, I won’t deny it. I would much rather have Peace in the Valley over War in the Jungles. But there is an old saying to anyone who thinks otherwise, “Don’t take my kindness for weakness.” There’s enough Schmucks out there already.

I’d like to find an old payscale and prove it to you but we never reached $22 and change per hour after 2003 that my old fart brain can recall.

Not sure I like the Arbitrator idea when you have Delta Ramp with around 70% of their workforce at Ready Reserve and Part Time? I’d rather continue to be patient and wait for a mutually agreed to deal.

Not to mention yes United does have expiration dates on many of their Stations that could be brought up to the Arbitrator? And some bombs in LUS IAM’s Contract that I absolutely don’t want.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Never said anyone authorized or condoned a slowdown Tim. People aren’t drones who just abide by the whims of anyone who thinks they control a joystick. But people do get angry and start to express their anger in their own unique ways. And anger was being expressed despite whatever it is you pretend to think.

And I deleted your last two sentences because they aren’t worthy of my time.

well, im not goin to debate you but i didnt see any "angry" employees. Everything was pretty seamless in ord. Certainly, not enuf to scare the company into giving us a pay raise.