American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[dfw gen]

It was the company's plan all along knowing they had the yes votes from the LAA side to pass a contract that was not concessionairy to THAT side of the equation. And that they would gain concessions from the LUS side.
Not providing the superior health insurance to ALL employees on the property shows they don't care about you or your family!

wonder what the association plan was? ignore the membership? tell the membership nothing for its own good?

 

[WeAAsles]

we dont have that problem. they just dont tell us much of anything, it would seem the membership is more of an inconvenience for the association. they would rather have rumors and half truths run rampant.

dfw gen it’s coming. You know the Company only just dumped their crap on us on Friday. It’s only been 2 days. And today is Sunday.

Yes people do take days off.

 

[WeAAsles]

wonder what the association plan was? ignore the membership? tell the membership nothing for its own good?

Sure you want them to publicly lay out their plans? That’s super smart.

gen Brian Parker is with the TWU “Strategic Action Coordinator” and called out the Company publicly to put out their FULL proposals in writing.

You don’t think they had any plans if the Company did just that?

Now they can put out our current positions without anyone accusing the Association of Bargaining in bad faith.

When they do put that out are you finally going to fall in line or keep shooting at your own Army?

 

[dfw gen]

dfw gen it’s coming. You know the Company only just dumped their crap on us on Friday. It’s only been 2 days. And today is Sunday.

Yes people do take days off.

i understand that. but read B737 drivers post. about amfa countering southwest's attempt at negotiating with the membership. how they kept the membership updated consistently. THEY KNEW WHERE THEY STOOD. its not about amfa its about treating the membership like we matter. i have asked for information on ta'd articles for years now and all i heard is we cant tell you. or you get information from back room sources that is just plan wrong. why should you get inside information and someone else cant? the association is in the position it is in today because they take the membership and their concerns and opinions for granted. as a workforce maintenance can be focused and a good union support membership but we are divided because the association wants us divided. the association is more comfortable sticking their heads in the sand and ignoring the membership.

 

[dfw gen]

Sure you want them to publicly lay out their plans? That’s super smart.

gen Brian Parker is with the TWU “Strategic Action Coordinator” and called out the Company publicly to put out their FULL proposals in writing.

You don’t think they had any plans if the Company did just that?

Now they can put out our current positions without anyone accusing the Association of Bargaining in bad faith.

When they do put that out are you finally going to fall in line or keep shooting at your own Army?

READ B 737 POSTS. ALL ALONG WE HAVE BEEN TOLD THERE IS NO COMPREHENSIVE PROPOSAL. BY LAW FROM WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD NEITHER PARTY CAN DISCUSS WITH THE MEMBERSHIP, TOPICS THAT WERE NOT DISCUSSED WITH EITHER PARTY IN NEGOTIATIONS. AT WHAT POINT IS THE ASSOCIATION GOING TO ACT LIKE A UNION INSTEAD OF STEP CHILDREN TRYING TO TOLERATE EACH OTHER. WHEN WILL THERE BE A UNITED FRONT AS AN EXAMPLE TO THE MEMBERSHIP? INSTEAD OF MARK BASKETT PUTTING OUT HIS OPINION, GARY PETERSON HIS OPNION, BRIAN PARKER HIS OPNION EVEN DAVID EIVERS HIS OPNION. WHEN WILL THE ASSOCIATION PERFORM AS EXPECTED? IT CERTAINLY HAS NOT UP TO NOW.

 

[dfw gen]

You don’t think they had any plans if the Company did just that?

quite frankly no i dont think they do. if so they would not be still saying there is no written proposal.

Sure you want them to publicly lay out their plans? That’s super smart.

what they have been doing up to now has not worked. how about including the membership at some point?

Brian Parker is with the TWU “Strategic Action Coordinator” and called out the Company publicly to put out their FULL proposals in writing.

exactly what is the associations stance? you know the united one signed and put out by the association leadership, not the generic unsigned nonsense we generally get.

Now they can put out our current positions without anyone accusing the Association of Bargaining in bad faith.

When they do put that out are you finally going to fall in line or keep shooting at your own Army?

thats a good question the biggest problem MOST of us have is the lack of transparency in information. up to now there has been very little of united and clear consistent ACCURATE information from the association. not the backroom information an opinions from people sitting in the bleachers.

 

[WeAAsles]

i understand that. but read B737 drivers post. about amfa countering southwest's attempt at negotiating with the membership. how they kept the membership updated consistently. THEY KNEW WHERE THEY STOOD. its not about amfa its about treating the membership like we matter. i have asked for information on ta'd articles for years now and all i heard is we cant tell you. or you get information from back room sources that is just plan wrong. why should you get inside information and someone else cant? the association is in the position it is in today because they take the membership and their concerns and opinions for granted. as a workforce maintenance can be focused and a good union support membership but we are divided because the association wants us divided. the association is more comfortable sticking their heads in the sand and ignoring the membership.

You said “countering” so that means they responded to what the Company threw at them.

No difference here.

You say the Association is divided but you have never sat down in a room or a Hotel Bar to see that they are NOT divided.

I have.

And if you guys are divided in Maintenance you divide yourselves. I haven’t seen or read ANYTHING that shows me the Association has done or tried to do that to anyone.

Yes the IAM doesn’t operate like the TWU. I see that and have grown to accept that as well.

 

[WeAAsles]

ALL ALONG WE HAVE BEEN TOLD THERE IS NO COMPREHENSIVE PROPOSAL. BY LAW FROM WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD NEITHER PARTY CAN DISCUSS WITH THE MEMBERSHIP, TOPICS THAT WERE NOT DISCUSSED WITH EITHER PARTY IN NEGOTIATIONS.

Not to say that you haven’t been told that but where did you hear that from?

Normally that’s to be expected. I don’t recall ever seeing a Company put out all the details of what’s been agreed to as it’s not normal practice. Have you ever seen that before?

Go back to those Company proposals. Most of the dates are a year or two old with one in Fleet being April 17, 2017. In Fleet there are 8 Articles not entirely agreed to yet and all 8 have different dates attached to them. There aren’t 2 that have the same date at all.

So those are all “separate” proposals. Just like I’m sure the Association has given multiple separate proposals the last of which now they’re going to have to put together to share as one online to all of us.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW gen for Fleet the last modification that the Company presented was in Classifications Article 7 on February 8, 2019.

That was the last modification to “pieces” of proposals that have been passed back and forth for years.

The Company took a little over a week to put it all together concisely.

 

[MetalMover]

It was the company's plan all along knowing they had the yes votes from the LAA side to pass a contract that was not concessionairy to THAT side of the equation. And that they would gain concessions from the LUS side.
Not providing the superior health insurance to ALL employees on the property shows they don't care about you or your family!

I have to ask......is the LUS health insurance really superior to LAA insurance or just cheaper? Frankly I have never had an issue with mine in any aspect.

 

[WeAAsles]

Bin Stretcher although it’s only a tiny snapshot and the only place a poll has been put up so far. The Company having the yes votes is not necessarily true.

I think the odds are more in the No category actually.

View attachment 14385

60 to 15 now.

 

[Bin Stretcher]

Bin Stretcher although it’s only a tiny snapshot and the only place a poll has been put up so far. The Company having the yes votes is not necessarily true.

I think the odds are more in the No category actually.

View attachment 14385

Good to know!

 

[Bin Stretcher]

wonder what the association plan was? ignore the membership? tell the membership nothing for its own good?

This "transparency" issue doesn't bother me as it does you. I've mentioned on here before that the IAM has NEVER revealed pre-tentative agreement discussions.
I've known NC members, past and present, and know they have our best interest in mind.

 

[Bin Stretcher]

I have to ask......is the LUS health insurance really superior to LAA insurance or just cheaper? Frankly I have never had an issue with mine in any aspect.

You tell me.....I pay approx $140 biweekly for family coverage of 90%. I pay a $40 copays to see a specialist, nothing more.
I have a family deductible of $450 max ($225 per individual) which also counts toward Out of Pocket max. Family Out of Pocket max is $3000 max ($1500 per individual)
AA plan is max 80% coverage for more money per paycheck. Specialist is copays PLUS 20% of the bill
Been to a specialist lately?

 

[swamt]

It was the company's plan all along knowing they had the yes votes from the LAA side to pass a contract that was not concessionairy to THAT side of the equation. And that they would gain concessions from the LUS side.
Not providing the superior health insurance to ALL employees on the property shows they don't care about you or your family!

we dont have that problem. they just dont tell us much of anything, it would seem the membership is more of an inconvenience for the association. they would rather have rumors and half truths run rampant.

So let me ask you two this; Above Bin says no concessions to the TWU side, with concessions on the IAM side. With that said; Isn't the 50% outsourcing from the 35% spend a concession? Or, are they about the same?? I ask this because I feel that having the word "spend" included changes things dramatically with the strike of a pen. Outsourcing 50% of maint and outsourcing 35% of maint "spend" could very easily equal the same or very close to it, right???

wonder what the association plan was? ignore the membership? tell the membership nothing for its own good?

dfw gen it’s coming. You know the Company only just dumped their crap on us on Friday. It’s only been 2 days. And today is Sunday.

Yes people do take days off.

What exactly is coming there little weezal? Are you saying that "finally" this pathetic asso will have to start filling in the membership?? What is coming???