American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

I knew this bunch of idiots do not have the proposals to counter act the company bullshit.
They can talk all they want but where are the proposals..again crickets.
If I was to guess these idiots have been negotiating off of AA's proposals and there is no actual firm written proposals from the ASSociation.
If there was they would have put them out.
We have been duped again...

Weasy where are you come out and play...

Again although you only want to come here to criticize I’m just going to answer you as civilized and explanatory as possible.

Looking at the Company proposals there are multiple dates and even some recent date changes that tells anyone with an ounce of common sense that the Company cobbled together their last positions from those dates to make a formal release.

And that took about a week and a half for them to put together.

Now of course the Association is going to have to do the exact same thing but as the Podcast said they want to get the team together (From all over the Country BTW) to discuss that so naturally they can be prepared to answer their Members when the questions start to fly.

I’ve spoken to a few of those people in the last few days and yes absolutely and with no reason to hide this fact, the Company release did put some of them behind the 8 Ball not thinking the Company would go against their past established norms. IMO though nothing wrong with a curve ball thrown here and there as it keeps people on their toes and thinking sharp.

You can snipe and grouse all you want ATD since you’re going to anyway, but you’ve been given your update for now and whatever else they release next week or in the future I doubt it’s going to ever be good enough for you anyway.

 

[MetalMover]

I have a hunch the TWU will gladly forego a nice raise and other good items to save jobs again. Sorry. Been there and done that. NO MORE!

 

[WeAAsles]

Let me put it in English for you weasy.
the ASSociation was caught with their pants down and now are scrambling to put something in writing..
It is pathetic but even this doesn't anger most of the TWU folks..

Scrambling would have been putting something out this week in a rushed context. The Podcast gives some clarity and basically should tell all that further information is coming but it’s not going to be rushed in a haphazard manner.

ATD have you ever been a Negotiator or asked particularly how Negotiations works?

You do know at this point mostly everything becomes verbal with people on both sides taking notes.

 

[WeAAsles]

I have a hunch the TWU will gladly forego a nice raise and other good items to save jobs again. Sorry. Been there and done that. NO MORE!

Actually including the SWA wage was something new presented by the Company since before the TA came out you were only being compared to Delta on 3/16/18 just like we were.

We are not in concessionary bargaining and the Company is in no foreseeable financial distress on the Horizon so no one in the Association has any reason or ambition to sacrifice any wage offerings.

They didn’t discuss it in the Podcast but prior to the SWA wage announcement I know they were asking for even more than the promised Parker 7%, greater than 2% per year increases, a yearly look back to keep us a top of the industry, and for a better Profit Sharing plan that at least matched the Industry and put it in writing.

The Company putting out their proposals in writing opened the gates for people who know the Associations positions to speak a little more freely.

 

[WeAAsles]

considering the profit sharing formula, the company wanting to gain on scope, c/c language and winning on insurance..the wages/benefits are woefully inadequate.

again, i ask...where is the sweetener for laa fsc?? all the AMTs got a late wage sweetener and lus ramp will get a $3k payment and 1 yr. extension on their insurance, sweetener??

ok, so what about you and me?

The sweetener in wages was the Company placing the almost newly minted SWA Mechanics Wages into the conversation.

In Fleet the top of the industry isn’t SWA but UAL.

Again if you listen to the Podcast Tom Regan conveyed that the Association is asking for a 10% Contribution to our 401K for all in exchange for the Company backing away from the IAMNPF.

 

[WeAAsles]

I do look forward to seeing a side by side intelligently and rationally laid out comparison of both positions

So do I. That’s why I’m glad to hear them say they aren’t rushing in putting that together.

 

[Matt1200]

I would like to see a contract by December! The company is laughing at our membership because we have no leadership. Merged unions won’t work!!!

 

[WeAAsles]

I would like to see a contract by December! The company is laughing at our membership because we have no leadership. Merged unions won’t work!!!

The Company appears to have left that decision firmly in the hands of the NMB Mediators.

But IMO the longer you guys argue and squabble against the Unions, the longer this is going to take.

You’re making your own beds.

 

[WeAAsles]

Weasy where are you come out and play...

ATD where are you? Come out and play.

 

[ALUS78]

Again although you only want to come here to criticize I’m just going to answer you as civilized and explanatory as possible.

Looking at the Company proposals there are multiple dates and even some recent date changes that tells anyone with an ounce of common sense that the Company cobbled together their last positions from those dates to make a formal release.

And that took about a week and a half for them to put together.

Now of course the Association is going to have to do the exact same thing but as the Podcast said they want to get the team together (From all over the Country BTW) to discuss that so naturally they can be prepared to answer their Members when the questions start to fly.

I’ve spoken to a few of those people in the last few days and yes absolutely and with no reason to hide this fact, the Company release did put some of them behind the 8 Ball not thinking the Company would go against their past established norms. IMO though nothing wrong with a curve ball thrown here and there as it keeps people on their toes and thinking sharp.

You can snipe and grouse all you want ATD since you’re going to anyway, but you’ve been given your update for now and whatever else they release next week or in the future I doubt it’s going to ever be good enough for you anyway.

I still dont understand what there is to see the association can propose anything.They can propose 50$and hour for fleet 100$ for AMTS ..so what. Just means more people are going to be disappointed when we do get a contract

 

[ALUS78]

i'd be content if the company came back with 3% more than ua (.94 cents more than $31.23/hr to $32.17/hr on DOS), along with 2.5% a year for the duration.

then they can increase the profit sharing formula for their true team partners, the pilots and F/As.

they can't have it all...scope/wages/profit sharing.

Its fair,not out of the ballpark at all

 

[WeAAsles]

I still dont understand what there is to see the association can propose anything.They can propose 50$and hour for fleet 100$ for AMTS ..so what. Just means more people are going to be disappointed when we do get a contract

Normally I would be in 100% agreement with you on your point Al. But the Company opened up a way of Negotiating that is outside the norm and now that puts the impetus on the Association to respond in kind with sharing what their positions are.

Basically the Membership will get to read if the Association is being unreasonable with their asks or not?

If the Association were asking for $50 for Fleet and $100 for Maintenance then they would likely hear protest coming from the Membership that they’ve lost their marbles and are out of their minds.

Originally if you recall the Association wanted a 16% Contribution to match what the Pilots were getting (Remember our wages are much less, so the contribution would be much less as well) Now we hear that the Association has brought their ask to a 10% contribution moving closer to the Company.

Do you think a 10% Contribution is unreasonable? Or should we ask for a 9% Contribution? 6% Contribution/ 3% Match?

 

[WeAAsles]

Its fair,not out of the ballpark at all

So you’re ok then with the massive differences in Profit Sharing we receive that 3% would satisfy you?

The Wage and PS offered by the Company does place us in last place in yearly Gross compared to Delta, UAL and SWA.

Listening to the Podcast the 401K formula offered is also not Industry leading.

 

[paul1]

we are doomed this whole a$$ is screwing its own members. What now they are going to get together wtf have they been doing since neg, began, Fricken months on bulletin boards and other flow through agreements.

 

[conehead777]

we are doomed this whole a$$ is screwing its own members. What now they are going to get together wtf have they been doing since neg, began, Fricken months on bulletin boards and other flow through agreements.

The iam at first thought they were going to get there insurance and a big payday on the iampf. They wouldn’t even support us twu . Then when they were threatened iam woke up. I’m glad the company put there proposals out because now the association can’t cut our pay raises for dues members. I don’t trust the company but my trust for the association is lower. The company put there’s out in writing weather you like it are don’t.but the association still has not posted there’s they must be hiding something. They need to post side by side then let us members decide what needs to be tweaked on both sides. The association owes us due paying members that. Not some future person we need to take care of the people now . When we took pay cuts the union international didn’t get a cut in pay. So they don’t feel our pain.