American Airlines And US Airways File Motion To Set Trial For Nov. 12, 2013

[etops1]

The DOJ can say what ever they want . This is entirely up to the judge now . Also , AA's profit is irrelevant to our merger efforts . Sure AA and US can probably go at it alone for now but this merger is based on long term success and to be able to compete with DL and UA in the long term . The DOJ simply does not have a strong case and they know it . Why do they need more time to gather " Evidence"? Don't they have the evidence they already need ? Obviously not . Because what they do have is weak . And they know it . If they had a strong case , they would have asked for a trial date close to US/AA requested trial date in order to get this done and over with and stop waisting everyone's f 'ng time !

 

[737823]

The DOJ can say what ever they want . This is entirely up to the judge now . Also , AA's profit is irrelevant to our merger efforts . Sure AA and US can probably go at it alone for now but this merger is based on long term success and to be able to compete with DL and UA in the long term . The DOJ simply does not have a strong case and they know it . Why do they need more time to gather " Evidence"? Don't they have the evidence they already need ? Obviously not . Because what they do have is weak . And they know it . If they had a strong case , they would have asked for a trial date close to US/AA requested trial date in order to get this done and over with and stop waisting everyone's f 'ng time !

Sounds like someone is upset this merger likely won't happen! I've been saying all along it isn't a sure thing until its done. US will just languish on flying from high profile CLT and PHL on stripped down airplanes and employees strapped to bankruptcy era contracts.

Josh

 

[robbedagain]

josh you sure do hate usairways soo much your posts seem to indicate your absolute hatred for usairways as well as the iam and the rehtoric betwn you and 700 sure shows.. my question is why hate the airline yes we may be the airline that is what it is but still we got over 30k hard workin folks to do what we can with the tools we have... i know our mgmt is crappy but on the bright side of it weve turned around for the better even though it is on our backs... as for the merger its now up to the judge i personelly dont care just as long as a paycheck is in my acct... if we merge then we merge if we dont then so be it at least for the near term

 

[AirwAr]

The DOJ can say what ever they want . This is entirely up to the judge now . Also , AA's profit is irrelevant to our merger efforts . Sure AA and US can probably go at it alone for now but this merger is based on long term success and to be able to compete with DL and UA in the long term . The DOJ simply does not have a strong case and they know it . Why do they need more time to gather " Evidence"? Don't they have the evidence they already need ? Obviously not . Because what they do have is weak . And they know it . If they had a strong case , they would have asked for a trial date close to US/AA requested trial date in order to get this done and over with and stop waisting everyone's f 'ng time !

AA's profit is irrelevant? LOL...It's kind of hard to argue that these companies need this merger to survive...when they're making record profits. And since everyone, including you, say that both companies can survive in the short and mid-term, the DOJ will just say, let's wait for the long term and see if you fail...then we'll allow you merge.

Evidence? Well, it sounds like the DOJ may have a few emails already from the US management team...but maybe they're hoping to get even more proof that US's plan was simply to reduce competition and raise fares.

Would have asked for closer date? Well, in the DOJ's opinion, this merger would be bad, so they're probably going to use every tool they can to break it up. I would love for the bankruptcy court to allow AA to come out of Ch 11 under the merger plan...and then let the new American decide in mid-December if they wanted to continue with the merger or not.

 

[etops1]

AA's profit is irrelevant? LOL...It's kind of hard to argue that these companies need this merger to survive...when they're making record profits. And since everyone, including you, say that both companies can survive in the short and mid-term, the DOJ will just say, let's wait for the long term and see if you fail...then we'll allow you merge.

Evidence? Well, it sounds like the DOJ may have a few emails already from the US management team...but maybe they're hoping to get even more proof that US's plan was simply to reduce competition and raise fares.

Would have asked for closer date? Well, in the DOJ's opinion, this merger would be bad, so they're probably going to use every tool they can to break it up. I would love for the bankruptcy court to allow AA to come out of Ch 11 under the merger plan...and then let the new American decide in mid-December if they wanted to continue with the merger or not.

They don't need the merger to survive . They need the merger to remain competitive . Listen , I know many of you loath the fact that AA is merging with USairways . All I can say is .. Get over it !

 

[robbedagain]

the doj states they need til mar 3 to develop evidence not sure if the emails would be strong enough alone

 

[AANOTOK]

They don't need the merger to survive . They need the merger to remain competitive .

Sorry to tell you, they are one in the same. If you can't compete, YOU LOSE!

 

[LD3]

the doj states they need til mar 3 to develop evidence not sure if the emails would be strong enough alone

They should have had their ducks in a row when they filed the suit...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Sorry to tell you, they are one in the same. If you can't compete, YOU LOSE!

You can't use that word COMPETE on here. It offends some people.
Besides competition implies that you are competing against SOMETHING which shouldn't be mentioned.

 

[AirwAr]

...
All I can say is .. Get over it !

Actually, I had gotten over it and, with the announcement of the management team, accepted the fact that we were going to be a 3rd rate carrier...always 2 steps behind UA and DL in every move they made. Now, with the DOJ announcement, I've actually been re-invigorated by the hope that AA can emerge from bankruptcy and determine its own path.

Amazingly...I've gotten that same feeling from every other AA employee on this board and those I meet at work.

 

[Bob Owens]

They don't need the merger to survive . They need the merger to remain competitive . Listen , I know many of you loath the fact that AA is merging with USairways . All I can say is .. Get over it !

Define competitive. In this industry it means they play at our expense. We were told that AA needed these concessions to survive. So in other words AA took from us and used the BK scam not to get out from under onerous terms, which was what the code was supposed to be used for, but instead to gain terms that would give them a competitive edge over other carriers, exactly what the law was not supposed to be used for and probably one of this reasons why this country has had a hard time keeping Bankruptcy codes in place, at least twice before they have scrapped the whole thing. In other words with the help of that clown Judge Lane, they committed fraud. Maybe this will help lead the current farce meeting the same fate as earlier attempts and mismanaged company will not be able to simply walk away from their commitments, they either keep their promises or liquidate..

 

[Jacobin777]

because France has all kinds of economic interests in N. Africa and the Middle East and DL has a JV with AF?

Seriously?

hint: when missiles start flying, the cost of fuel really doesn't matter one way or the other.

I suppose DL could renounce its American citizenship, pretend its a Greek airline, paint over its American flag..... not sure about the rest of the pack.

Er, yes WT, obviously a global factors is causing havoc on many markets. I was trying to be a bit sardonic.

Sounds like someone is upset this merger likely won't happen! I've been saying all along it isn't a sure thing until its done. US will just languish on flying from high profile CLT and PHL on stripped down airplanes and employees strapped to bankruptcy era contracts.

Josh

Sounds like "sour grapes" to me.

They don't need the merger to survive . They need the merger to remain competitive . Listen , I know many of you loath the fact that AA is merging with USairways . All I can say is .. Get over it !

They don't need the merger, especially not AA.

Maybe it is you etops1 who needs to get over the fact the merger might not happen anymore?

Actually, I had gotten over it and, with the announcement of the management team, accepted the fact that we were going to be a 3rd rate carrier...always 2 steps behind UA and DL in every move they made. Now, with the DOJ announcement, I've actually been re-invigorated by the hope that AA can emerge from bankruptcy and determine its own path.

+1! I couldn't agree more. I too had gotten used to Parker running the show. I even had "Plan-B" made in case if I didn't like how AA is/was in 2-3 years. I'm hoping to not even deal with "Plan-B".

We were told that AA needed these concessions to survive.

By who? Parker?

So in other words AA took from us and used the BK scam not to get out from under onerous terms, which was what the code was supposed to be used for

There was no "scam involved". You and your cohorts are deluding yourself if you think that was the case.

but instead to gain terms that would give them a competitive edge over other carriers, exactly what the law was not supposed to be used for

Could you provide us with proof of that please?

In other words with the help of that clown Judge Lane

Calling people names doesn't help, it only weakens your argument.

they committed fraud.

How so?

they either keep their promises or liquidate..

That's not really your right to decide and what "promises" were broken?

 

[Jacobin777]

Sorry to tell you, they are one in the same. If you can't compete, YOU LOSE!

Do tell us with your vast knowledge and 3 decades of experience how AA isn't competing currently or how it won't be able to in the future.

Maybe you can provide us aviation tyros with some invaluable insight.

 

[eolesen]

Terry Maxon's blog has the full DOJ filing to the court, but here are the high points:

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2013/08/heres-the-doj-memo-that-explains-why-it-needs-until-march-2014-to-try-the-antitrust-case-against-us-airways-and-american-airlines.html/#more-17036

1. American’s Ongoing Bankruptcy Proceedings Do Not Justify Trying this Case on an Incomplete Record.

2. The Government’s Pre-Filing Investigation Is No Substitute for Full Discovery on Both the Allegations in the Complaint and the Airlines’ Defenses.

3. Six Months to A Full Trial on the Merits Is in Keeping with Timetables in Comparable Merger Cases.

4. The Public Interest Strongly Favors Plaintiffs’ Proposed Schedule.

In short, the average timeframe from filing to court for comparable cases has been about 180 days. The airlines want that shortened to 75 days.

The airlines are claiming "16 months" of investigation, but the merger was announced in February, and the airlines dumped 3 million pages of documents on the DOJ in May... at best, they've had six months to go thru depositions and documents.

Since the merger can't be undone, I suspect that the court will err on the side of the DOJ. There's no imminent risk of either airline going out of business.

The only real risk here is that the merger agreement's drop-dead date comes and goes. That date could easily be extended by mutual agreement between US and AA, but perhaps there are some who now question whether or not the UCC feels it would be worthwhile to continue down that road...

 

[eolesen]

the doj states they need til mar 3 to develop evidence not sure if the emails would be strong enough alone

There's a difference you're missing --- what they said is they have a right to adequate time to perform discovery.

What they've been provided for the investigation has been largely voluntarily, as opposed to under a court order. By filing the lawsuit, DOJ has the ability to demand records they wouldn't normally request or have access under a regulatory agency review.

Sure AA and US can probably go at it alone for now but this merger is based on long term success and to be able to compete with DL and UA in the long term. The DOJ simply does not have a strong case and they know it . Why do they need more time to gather " Evidence"? Don't they have the evidence they already need ? Obviously not. Because what they do have is weak. And they know it . If they had a strong case , they would have asked for a trial date close to US/AA requested trial date in order to get this done and over with and stop waisting everyone's f 'ng time !

Just curious, but where did you study law?... Negotiating a contract or a couple of grievances doesn't make you a lawyer...

They had enough evidence to file the lawsuit, and not have it dismissed. They had enough for the bankruptcy court to defer ruling on the POR. If the case was indeed that weak, Judge Lane could have approved the POR last week.

As for your comment about AA's and US's recent earnings being entirely relevant.... They're more than ample proof that there's far less harm done (if any) from allowing for proper discovery to be performed.

Evidence? Well, it sounds like the DOJ may have a few emails already from the US management team...but maybe they're hoping to get even more proof that US's plan was simply to reduce competition and raise fares.

What DOJ has from the investigatory phase is largely what AA and US offered up voluntarily.

Are AA and US worried that by doing proper discovery, the DOJ might uncover a skeleton that perhaps AA and US didn't think they'd find?...

I know the merger cheerleaders want this fast tracked, but the plaintiff usually prevails when it's shown that rushing to trial would cause irreparable harm to the DOJ's case. A rush to trial without allowing time for discovery and depositions would also probably provide grounds for an appeal, something that most judges don't particularly care for. They'll wait it out before they'll rush to make a defendant happy.