Amfa@aa

[Stop the Bus..I Want Off!!]

AMFA constitution Sec 9

No ammendment to this constitution or to any Local By-laws shall be proposed or adopted that would affect any member in good standing by:
* INFRINGING upon their rights and powers
* Taking away their right to hold office
* Taking away their right to select and elect all officers, both NATIONAL and Local
* Taking away their right to select and elect all convention delegates
* Taking away their right to RECALL ANY OFFICERS
* Taking away their right to approve and ratify ALL CONTRACTS and LETTERS OF AGREEMENT
* Taking away their right to approve all AMFA strikes and other AMFA recognized unions' legal picket lines
* Taking away their right to propose and submit changes to this Constitution or any Local Bylaws


This is what we want............DEMOCRACY and ACCOUNTABILITY!!
Try reading the twu constitution and compare........It's easy to see the difference!!
Keep the Faith......VOTE AMFA

 

[NyQuill]

We won't owe amfa any $$$$$..right?

 

[Stop the Bus..I Want Off!!]

You will have to pay. It's called dues. That's what unions do. Sober up and a clear head will follow. Try checking it out where the twu spends it's money. I'm afraid your info is old and outdated like the twu.
I do not believe you will be the one to stop the AMFA movement.
NEXT...........

 

[NyQuill]

Maybe not biggun..but I will be the one to educate the floor on amfa's and amfa supporters doings...$300K loan without any approval or request for approval....APPROVED BY AMFA NEC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hackman]

Maybe not biggun..but I will be the one to educate the floor on amfa's and amfa supporters doings...$300K loan without any approval or request for approval....APPROVED BY AMFA NEC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Earl steve, how you gonna educate the members when your walked out the gate??

Did ya get caught with your hand in somebody else's cookie jar?? Oooops? :unsure:

Maybe now you'll get to see the twu in action. Good luck bruddah!!!!

 

[MaryLou]

I'm new, I've signed my card, and I will welcome AMFA, but what's this guy talking about a loan?

 

[Bob Owens]

So AMFA took out a loan. So what? We are paying the TWU $9 million a year to get us nothing but industry leading concessions for twenty years. That's $180,000,000 over the last twenty years wasted. What's $300k compared to $180,Million?

The TWU International spent over $300K last year buying themselves cars with our dues. That sure helped us get a better contract right?

If you want to get excited about a loan consider this; When the seperate Locals were formed we had to take "loans" from the International despite paying dues and building up the treasury of the Locals we were in prior to seperation. What happened to the Millions paid in dues? Shouldnt we have left with at least a portion of the Treasury? They didnt even give us a start up grant! We got nothing! Instead they gave us a loan. A loan from a union that we had paid dues into for years. It was as if we went out and started a completely new union!

The International "LOANED" us $20,000 to start Local 562. Despite the fact that most of us had already paid thousands of dolars in dues to the TWU we statred off our Local with each member oweing the International slightly over $50.

The International went out and bought themselves over $300k worth of cars, yet they could only give the seperate locals Loans instead of grants! We see where their priorities are!

We got by.

We will again.

In a way its as if the International prepared us to leave.

Maybe we should thank them after we vote in AMFA.

Nahhh!

 

[MaryLou]

Can I ask why a vote wasnt taken? I see why we needed the money but I thought we voted on things here.

 

[TWU informer]

Can I ask why a vote wasnt taken? I see why we needed the money but I thought we voted on things here.

The National Executive Council (NEC) votes on expenditures from the National Financial Account and the NEC controls the National Finances.

We just discussed this over dinner this weekend with Delle, and Terry Harvey,...

WE AT AA LOCAL 12 CURRENTLY OWE NOTHING, AND HAVE ZERO OUTSTANDING LOANS WITH AMFA NATIONAL.

The TWU is grasping for issues as always, and as always they are coming up short while telling lies!

 

[Bob Owens]

Can I ask why a vote wasnt taken? I see why we needed the money but I thought we voted on things here.

Do you want to vote on every expense? There are so many expenses and decisions you would have to vote every week. I think that the point is that you get to vote on who runs the union, we do not have that right with the TWU. With the TWU the International runs the union but the members never get to vote for or against them. This is wrong. All union officials, in theory have a fiduciary responsiblity to the members,but without accountability its a farce. The fact is we should be able to elect those who manage the Union for us and be able to hold them accountable for the way they do it.

For instance, reportedly, AMFA lent the AA organizing committe money to pursue a lawsuit. That lawsuit was to gain the ability to campain for AMFA. Now is this a proper use of the members dues? Yes, because it fits in with the agreed upon goal of the organization, agreed upon by the members of the organization directly. So there was nothing illegal or questionable about the loan. However everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if, as a member you feel that dues should not be used to try and get all the mechanics into one union then you can hold those who made that decision accountable, you can vote against them at the next Convention or, if you dont want to wait, you can organize a recall drive. AMFA, like all unons makes many decisions for their members, however unlike most other unions you have the right to hold them accountable for any one of them at any time.

Now the TWU also makes numerous expenses, some that are clearly for the good of the union, even the Delta drive, fits into this, and some that clearly benifitted the International officers only, such as the $300,000+ they spent buying cars for themselves. Not being able to vote on this is one thing, not being able to hold them accountable for it is another. In the TWU there is no recall. If you feel that the International has done something wrong you can file charges against the International but the International decides whether or not the charges have merit. However if you do so the International may file charges against you, and the International will decide whether or not you are guilty. Also with the TWU you do not ever get to vote for International officers. You do get to vote for Local officers however the International can remove them whenever they see fit. All they have to do is level charges against them, then they hold what they call a trial, but instead of a Judge and a neutral jury, the International is the judge and jury. So the same body that leveled the charges decides whether or not you are guilty of what they have already said you are guilty of.

While both organizations made decisions and use the funds of the union without first including the members, in AMFA you have the right to question and act upon those decisions, up to removing those who are responsible, with the TWU you really have no rights, and to question the International could put you in jeopardy, and you have no means within the union to hold them accountable for anything. With AMFA they work for you, you can fire them, with the TWU they do not work for you, you can not fire them unless you vote out the entire TWU. And hopefully thats what we are about to do.

 

[j7915]

Do you want to vote on every expense? There are so many expenses and decisions you would have to vote every week. I think that the point is that you get to vote on who runs the union, we do not have that right with the TWU. With the TWU the International runs the union but the members never get to vote for or against them. This is wrong. All union officials, in theory have a fiduciary responsiblity to the members,but without accountability its a farce. The fact is we should be able to elect those who manage the Union for us and be able to hold them accountable for the way they do it.

For instance, reportedly, AMFA lent the AA organizing committe money to pursue a lawsuit. That lawsuit was to gain the ability to campain for AMFA. Now is this a proper use of the members dues? Yes, because it fits in with the agreed upon goal of the organization, agreed upon by the members of the organization directly. So there was nothing illegal or questionable about the loan. However everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if, as a member you feel that dues should not be used to try and get all the mechanics into one union then you can hold those who made that decision accountable, you can vote against them at the next Convention or, if you dont want to wait, you can organize a recall drive. AMFA, like all unons makes many decisions for their members, however unlike most other unions you have the right to hold them accountable for any one of them at any time.

Now the TWU also makes numerous expenses, some that are clearly for the good of the union, even the Delta drive, fits into this, and some that clearly benifitted the International officers only, such as the $300,000+ they spent buying cars for themselves. Not being able to vote on this is one thing, not being able to hold them accountable for it is another. In the TWU there is no recall. If you feel that the International has done something wrong you can file charges against the International but the International decides whether or not the charges have merit. However if you do so the International may file charges against you, and the International will decide whether or not you are guilty. Also with the TWU you do not ever get to vote for International officers. You do get to vote for Local officers however the International can remove them whenever they see fit. All they have to do is level charges against them, then they hold what they call a trial, but instead of a Judge and a neutral jury, the International is the judge and jury. So the same body that leveled the charges decides whether or not you are guilty of what they have already said you are guilty of.

While both organizations made decisions and use the funds of the union without first including the members, in AMFA you have the right to question and act upon those decisions, up to removing those who are responsible, with the TWU you really have no rights, and to question the International could put you in jeopardy, and you have no means within the union to hold them accountable for anything. With AMFA they work for you, you can fire them, with the TWU they do not work for you, you can not fire them unless you vote out the entire TWU. And hopefully thats what we are about to do.

Bob, I think you need to step back a little. A loan has to be repaid, or else it is not a loan, but maybe a stipend, charity, aid, etc.

If AMFA National loaned some AMFA supporters in Tulsa money, then the AMFA membership has a right to know by what authority they justify doing so. Potential futur members should be informed of this obligation that may have been imposed on them before they even were represented by AMFA.

Regardless of whether I support AMFA or the TWU, neither should impose debts on people who are not members of their organization and not represented by them.

This entire thing smells like an LBO, take control and use the funds of the organization that was taken over to pay of the debts incured. Just what will it cost to repay this money? During the LBO craze it was the employees retirement, what would Local 12 use? I can think of a few ways they can raise the funds, but I leave it up to them to think up their own.

Who'se signature is on the loan papers?

 

[Hopeful]

HEY CIO!!!!

IS the $20,000.00 a year I'm giving to the company a LOAN?

 

[TonyB]

Do you want to vote on every expense? There are so many expenses and decisions you would have to vote every week. I think that the point is that you get to vote on who runs the union, we do not have that right with the TWU. With the TWU the International runs the union but the members never get to vote for or against them. This is wrong. All union officials, in theory have a fiduciary responsiblity to the members,but without accountability its a farce. The fact is we should be able to elect those who manage the Union for us and be able to hold them accountable for the way they do it.

For instance, reportedly, AMFA lent the AA organizing committe money to pursue a lawsuit. That lawsuit was to gain the ability to campain for AMFA. Now is this a proper use of the members dues? Yes, because it fits in with the agreed upon goal of the organization, agreed upon by the members of the organization directly. So there was nothing illegal or questionable about the loan. However everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if, as a member you feel that dues should not be used to try and get all the mechanics into one union then you can hold those who made that decision accountable, you can vote against them at the next Convention or, if you dont want to wait, you can organize a recall drive. AMFA, like all unons makes many decisions for their members, however unlike most other unions you have the right to hold them accountable for any one of them at any time.

Now the TWU also makes numerous expenses, some that are clearly for the good of the union, even the Delta drive, fits into this, and some that clearly benifitted the International officers only, such as the $300,000+ they spent buying cars for themselves. Not being able to vote on this is one thing, not being able to hold them accountable for it is another. In the TWU there is no recall. If you feel that the International has done something wrong you can file charges against the International but the International decides whether or not the charges have merit. However if you do so the International may file charges against you, and the International will decide whether or not you are guilty. Also with the TWU you do not ever get to vote for International officers. You do get to vote for Local officers however the International can remove them whenever they see fit. All they have to do is level charges against them, then they hold what they call a trial, but instead of a Judge and a neutral jury, the International is the judge and jury. So the same body that leveled the charges decides whether or not you are guilty of what they have already said you are guilty of.

While both organizations made decisions and use the funds of the union without first including the members, in AMFA you have the right to question and act upon those decisions, up to removing those who are responsible, with the TWU you really have no rights, and to question the International could put you in jeopardy, and you have no means within the union to hold them accountable for anything. With AMFA they work for you, you can fire them, with the TWU they do not work for you, you can not fire them unless you vote out the entire TWU. And hopefully thats what we are about to do.

Bob, I think you need to step back a little. A loan has to be repaid, or else it is not a loan, but maybe a stipend, charity, aid, etc.

If AMFA National loaned some AMFA supporters in Tulsa money, then the AMFA membership has a right to know by what authority they justify doing so. Potential futur members should be informed of this obligation that may have been imposed on them before they even were represented by AMFA.

Regardless of whether I support AMFA or the TWU, neither should impose debts on people who are not members of their organization and not represented by them.

This entire thing smells like an LBO, take control and use the funds of the organization that was taken over to pay of the debts incured. Just what will it cost to repay this money? During the LBO craze it was the employees retirement, what would Local 12 use? I can think of a few ways they can raise the funds, but I leave it up to them to think up their own.

Who'se signature is on the loan papers?

The TWU International lent money to the new maintenance locals when they got the separate maintenance local scam rolling, or have you forgotten?! :down:

 

[MaryLou]

You guys sure know how to confuse a girl. Informer stated currently we do not owe AMFA any money, OK, how about if AMFA is elected, do we then owe AMFA National any money? Again I am pro AMFA, just curious.

 

[TWU informer]

You guys sure know how to confuse a girl. Informer stated currently we do not owe AMFA any money, OK, how about if AMFA is elected, do we then owe AMFA National any money? Again I am pro AMFA, just curious.

NO