Amfa Vs. Twu Debate

[Ken MacTiernan]

Steve, your comment to Bob Owens sounds like typical dodging of the issues. Bob places blame for our position at AA right where it belongs... at the feet of the twu. Like Bob, I have no problem with my Local. My problem is with the undemocratic, self appointed sell out members of the international.
Your moving into management was your decision. If you are back "on the floor" that too was your decision. It sure seems as if your decision is to lie down and allow to be stepped on because the union will take care of you. You posted about the iam at TWA and how the iam should have done better. Well, the twu is worse than the iam and the worse is here... right now. I don't ever expect someone such as yourself to stand up for what is the best for our profession. I don't expect someone who went into management to ever care about our profession.
Bob is no self proclaimed Saint. But he is a man with principles and morals. He is fighting against greed and ineptness. So, stay with the twu and sit by as your profession erodes further. There are thousands of other AMTs who wish to better ourselves.

 

[TWU informer]

Isn't it strange how profound truth ends a thread?

 

[j7915]

We can only hope that once AMFA gets in, the twu true believers will stop with the lies,(like 50% laidoff at NWA) hate,(calling AMFA supporters scabs) and threats, (making bomb threats at a school because of a AMFA meeting).

Unfortunately, like the iam diehards at NWA that lost thier cozy permanent union careers, they will continue to spew their garbage until the last dog dies. Go to the AMFAnuts website and see a few poor iam fools in action, its so funny its almost sad.

When I was on my unpaid twu vacation over the holidays, I stayed at the home of one of my NWA buddies for a few days, some of whom are laid off. I asked them if they would ever want the iam back, even being out. The answer? A resounding NEVER, no iam EVER again is what all three said. All three were confident they would be recalled at full pay. Meanwhile I told them laidoff AA mechanics are being recalled for OSM positions (AA is having a hard time getting anyone to come back at OSM wages, the twu swore this would never happen). I informed my NWA friends of the content of the brutal concessions we were forced to swallow by the twu/company for 6 years, they could not believe it. They all agreed we at AA would have done better in chapter 11. "Why do you guys still have the twu?" one asked. I simply said, "I couldn't give you a logical answer, because I just don't understand it myself".

Your time at AA has run out twu!!!!

Has NWA reduced their amt headcount by 50% or not? Playing little games with words, i. e. they could have transferred, just brings up the question: where is work now? NWA obviously wanted to reduce headcount. They would have done it anyway. Of course AMFA, decided that top pay for a few is more important. which may be why american Business is outsourcing to cheaper labor markets. As long as a few, albeit the top executives make lots of money then the business must be doing well, and doing good, for a few.

Who are going to be our customers?

I too enjoyed my xmas holidays. Now maybe if you had visited with an amt who is not AMFA supporters you would have gotten a different impression.

Actually what I have read concerning IAM seniority rules and bidding, etc I don't think that I would want them around either. What I wonder is how AMFA would reconcile the one Union for all amts with the various contracts. The TWU place title occupational seniority at the top, unlike what TWA had.

As for the concept that the TWU and AA are causing a split between line and overhaul, someone please expand on that.

 

[TWU informer]

Has NWA reduced their amt headcount by 50% or not? Playing little games with words, i. e. they could have transferred, just brings up the question: where is work now? NWA obviously wanted to reduce headcount. They would have done it anyway. Of course AMFA, decided that top pay for a few is more important. which may be why american Business is outsourcing to cheaper labor markets. As long as a few, albeit the top executives make lots of money then the business must be doing well, and doing good, for a few.

Why has there been 2 (two) Arbitration Hearings put on by AMFA over the NWA use of Force Majeure that resulted in layoffs?

If AMFA agreed to this as you claim, then why are we awaiting an Arbitrators decision?

Please SPIN the answer to that question for us j7915?

You guys remind of hard headed teenagers that do NOT listen.
WE KEEP TELLING YOU TRUTH, AND YOU KEEP REFUSING TO HEAR IT!

 

[twusconscience]

Steve,
Stop hiding behind "survivorship" and call it what it really is "cowardliness"

 

[twuer]

You have a very small crowd here. These are only opinions of a very few. Most mechanics have better things to do with their time.

P.S. Go over to the USAviation/American site and see the news clip I put there.

Hey Mojo,

Just curious, but what side of the fence are you on??? :huh:

 

[TWU informer]

Hey Mojo,

Just curious, but what side of the fence are you on??? :huh:

Oh no, get ready,

I smell "I support the TWU" letter or else threat coming! h34r:

 

[TWU informer]

oops

 

[twuer]

Hey Mojo,

Just curious, but what side of the fence are you on??? :huh:

Oh no, get ready,

I smell "I support the TWU" letter or else threat coming! h34r:

WOW, can't even ask a simple question!!! Are you paranoid or what Informer???????????? h34r:

 

[TWU informer]

WOW, can't even ask a simple question!!! Are you paranoid or what Informer????????????  h34r:

Why would I be paranoid that you might threaten mojo?

I am not paranoid at all.

You are the one worrying about where others stand.

You guys are just as predictable as the sunrise tomorrow morning.

 

[twuer]

I just heard a rumor that the TWU Local Presidents that were forced to sign letters of "true and faithful" allegiance to the TWU are planning to show up for the debate and resign their positions in front of the Tulsa Membership.

I thougt we had a good plan, these guys might just take the show.

I bet that will end the debate!

Yeah right. . .and I have some swamp land in Florida I'd like to sell ya' too!!

Where do you get this stuff Informer? Oh I forgot, you make it up!!!

 

[Buck]

Swamp land in Florida?

Did you pay for it with dues from the membership?

 

[Bob Owens]

Of course AMFA, decided that top pay for a few is more important. which may be why american Business is outsourcing to cheaper labor markets.

It seems that your idea is to allow us to become the "cheaper labor market" without a fight.

As long as a few, albeit the top executives make lots of money then the business must be doing well, and doing good, for a few.

Do you mean like Sonny Hall ($200K+) or Jim Little ($146K+)?

Who are going to be our customers?

The millions of other Americans who dont have a poor excuse of a union like the TWU giving away all their pay and benifits.

As for the concept that the TWU and AA are causing a split between line and overhaul, someone please expand on that.

The concessions hit the line harder than the bases. First of all there never was a sufficient allowance put in to make up for the fact that line mechanics tend to live in much more expensive areas of the country and work odd shifts, weekends and holidays.A real union would inform workers in places like Tulsa and MCI that although they can live reasonably well on the wage they have that workers in high cost areas, where the money is generated that keeps this company in business, can not maintain a reasonable standard of living. Most industries and unions in other industries take regional cost differences into account. Even the US government does also. More than likely most of the members in areas like Tulsa and MCI would not consider it unreasonable to have a differential in place, however the pig headed leaders they have fight this, and use their majority status to prevent it from happening. The line guys are then forced to live on a wage that may be acceptable in Tulsa or MCI but not where they live. Line guys have no objection to fighting along side Overhaul to get a reasonable NY or CA based wage for all of us, they just object to workers in low cost areas who happen to be the majority saying,"this is good enough for me and I dont care about you".This causes resentment between the two and blame goes directly to both the TWU and the company. A real union would make a point of explaining that American Airlines is a company that flys passengers and frieght and does overhaul as a means of supporting that service. They should explain that AA does nearly all of its business nowhere near Tulsa or MCI. They should explain that line workers are a necessity and no matter what some union brother would have to endure the high costs because that is where the company generates the money that pays for overhaul.It should be made clear that while overhaul is a very important part of the business, the business revolves around the customers, not overhaul, and the majority of the business and the customers are out of high cost areas.

 

[Raptor]

8636 Total Signed Election Authorization Cards by Station and Title Group:
Updated, Saturday January 10, 2004 at 12:56:32 AM. Our goal is to obtain 60% of the Craft and Class of
Mechanic and Related, and at this time, our estimate of that number, with 'elbow room' is approximately 9,634 cards.
Using that number, at this time, we are about 89.7% to our goal, or approximately 53.8% of our Craft and Class. Good job so far, and let's
REDOUBLE our efforts and GET THIS DONE

TWU where the overpaid Leaders can only be found at the bank collecting their pay

 

[Raptor]

I was talking to a guy today and all he could say was he was waiting for Delle to say this or that, it sounded to me like he did not have any of his own original thoughts, very simular to what you would hear from a TWU supporter, to me that is a bad thing, there is such a thing as AMFA sheep as well as TWU sheep being a sheep from either side in my opinion is a bad thing, It is too bad that more Mechanics don't know how to use their minds and think for theirselves instead of waiting for somone else to think for them.

There are sheep everywhere at AA and it is really a sad thing.
I like to think for myself, which is why I voted NO when so many were saying vote yes.

Just an observation