AMR S.E.C. Filing Details Loan Changes

[777 fixer]

This shows that AA+CO need to start a FARE WAR now! All the airlines are weak! Now is the time to pounce! Start a fare war now and United,Northworst,Delta,and USscare,plus many others will be eliminated by Chapter 7 bankruptcy. Yes, AA+COand possibly SW will have to file for bankruptcy too, but their gonna have to do that anyway the way things are going. I don't know what we're waiting for. This is the perfect time to destroy our enemies for good. Let's use the bankruptcy laws against "them" for once!

What makes you so sure AA would survive? Can you say with 100% certainty that AA would not go under at some point in the future? Looking at the past thirty years of airline history the answer is obviously no. IMO the idea of starting a fare war at the present moment is the most asinine thing I have ever heard of. Lets say AA were to declare Chapter 11, do you think you would get through unscathed? One only needs to look at UAL for the answer to that question.

 

[Bob Owens]

Relief on a loan of $700 million. Thats less than 2 weeks worth of revenue. Well thats like me asking for relief on a loan of $1800.

Last year AMR brought in $2billion more than they did in 2002 with 40,000 less employees.

Since 2003 they have paid off over $10 billion in debt and have around $6billion in cash.

Since 2003 my debt has increased about 50%, if not more.

No sympathy from me. I want it all back, including adjustments for inflation.

 

[Bob Owens]

Sometimes the truth hurts LGA.... No one has pay envy, your work rules suck and you work 40% more to make the same amount of money.. I wouldn't call that envy.... Thats right you didn't go to BK, you just handed it right on over, you tough guy you!

Well he's got us there.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

What makes you so sure AA would survive? Can you say with 100% certainty that AA would not go under at some point in the future? Looking at the past thirty years of airline history the answer is obviously no. IMO the idea of starting a fare war at the present moment is the most asinine thing I have ever heard of. Lets say AA were to declare Chapter 11, do you think you would get through unscathed? One only needs to look at UAL for the answer to that question.

So, what's your solution to the problem? Please tell us with your great wisdom what your great idea is to reduce capacity in this god forsaken industry? Even the great eolesen is speechless on this point. They aren't going to re-regulate the airlines,at least not in the near future anyway. What are we going to do? Keep bleeding money until we are bankrupt anyway? Yeah,that's real smart thing to do. Right now AA has a "war chest" of cash. These other airlines are leveraged to the hilt because they just came out of bankruptcy. Start a fare war and these other airlines are in Chapter 7. Delta and Northworst won't be able to merge and maybe AA can pick up scabair's pacific routes in the bankruptcy court. Same thing with United and UScare. Yes, it's a gamble but it's a better option than sitting here and doing nothing. As far as me getting unscathed, where have you been? This industry is the worst in the world and,if you haven't planned for a new career by now then you deserve to be clobbered in bankruptcy court.

The people and the government wanted airline deregulation. Well I say let's give them deregulation!

 

[777 fixer]

So, what's your solution to the problem? Please tell us with your great wisdom what your great idea is to reduce capacity in this god forsaken industry? Even the great eolesen is speechless on this point. They aren't going to re-regulate the airlines,at least not in the near future anyway. What are we going to do? Keep bleeding money until we are bankrupt anyway? Yeah,that's real smart thing to do. Right now AA has a "war chest" of cash. These other airlines are leveraged to the hilt because they just came out of bankruptcy. Start a fare war and these other airlines are in Chapter 7. Delta and Northworst won't be able to merge and maybe AA can pick up scabair's pacific routes in the bankruptcy court. Same thing with United and UScare. Yes, it's a gamble but it's a better option than sitting here and doing nothing. As far as me getting unscathed, where have you been? This industry is the worst in the world and,if you haven't planned for a new career by now then you deserve to be clobbered in bankruptcy court.

The people and the government wanted airline deregulation. Well I say let's give them deregulation!

Once again can you say with 100% certainty that it won't be AA going Chapter 7? Very easy question to answer.

You say Keep bleeding money until we are bankrupt anyway?. So your solution is to start a fair war to speed up the process. Sorry if I say that makes no sense what so ever.

These other airlines are leveraged to the hilt because they just came out of bankruptcy.

AA isn't exactly debt free.

You say Delta and Northworst won't be able to merge and maybe AA can pick up scabair's pacific routes in the bankruptcy court. Once again can you say with 100% certainty that this will happen? Of course not. Who's to say Delta survives your little fare war and is the one who picks up NWA's pacific routes.

You say Yes, it's a gamble but it's a better option than sitting here and doing nothing. Do you actually believe that nothing is going on in the industry?

As far as me getting unscathed, where have you been? Yes I am fully aware of the 2003 concessions since I got to partake in them myself. However that's not the issue I was referring to. What I was talking about is what would happen in a BK court. Do you think AA would not ask a judge to impose some harsh terms?

This industry is the worst in the world and,if you haven't planned for a new career by now then you deserve to be clobbered in bankruptcy court. And what about the retirees like NHBB? You know the ones who put in a great number of years at AA when things were relatively good for the most part. Do they deserve to get clobbered?

 

[The Goose]

Once again can you say with 100% certainty that it won't be AA going Chapter 7? Very easy question to answer.

You say Keep bleeding money until we are bankrupt anyway?. So your solution is to start a fair war to speed up the process. Sorry if I say that makes no sense what so ever.

These other airlines are leveraged to the hilt because they just came out of bankruptcy.

AA isn't exactly debt free.

You say Delta and Northworst won't be able to merge and maybe AA can pick up scabair's pacific routes in the bankruptcy court. Once again can you say with 100% certainty that this will happen? Of course not. Who's to say Delta survives your little fare war and is the one who picks up NWA's pacific routes.

You say Yes, it's a gamble but it's a better option than sitting here and doing nothing. Do you actually believe that nothing is going on in the industry?

As far as me getting unscathed, where have you been? Yes I am fully aware of the 2003 concessions since I got to partake in them myself. However that's not the issue I was referring to. What I was talking about is what would happen in a BK court. Do you think AA would not ask a judge to impose some harsh terms?

This industry is the worst in the world and,if you haven't planned for a new career by now then you deserve to be clobbered in bankruptcy court. And what about the retirees like NHBB? You know the ones who put in a great number of years at AA when things were relatively good for the most part. Do they deserve to get clobbered?

One uncertainty that all seem to be avoiding - bankruptcy court is not the same as it was prior to 31 October, 2005. A few of the abusable loopholes were plugged, but...

The airlines that have filed BK recently (with the exception of Frontier, due to an a-hole credit card processor) have gone out of business (as it should be). There are no examples of the new law's application to draw on with respect to a reorganization. Delta and Northwest (both obviously with an eye to the future) filed at almost the last minute to take advantage of the old law and at almost the same time. No other airline has filed a chapter 11 petition and gone on to survive since the new law took effect, as far as I know.

I'm not interested in being a test case, but I'm even less interested in allowing yuppie scum to loot the company (and shareholders) as they have for job performance near and below the call of duty (as they have), contract or not.

 

[Borescope]

So, what's your solution to the problem? Please tell us with your great wisdom what your great idea is to reduce capacity in this god forsaken industry? Even the great eolesen is speechless on this point. They aren't going to re-regulate the airlines,at least not in the near future anyway. What are we going to do? Keep bleeding money until we are bankrupt anyway? Yeah,that's real smart thing to do. Right now AA has a "war chest" of cash. These other airlines are leveraged to the hilt because they just came out of bankruptcy. Start a fare war and these other airlines are in Chapter 7. Delta and Northworst won't be able to merge and maybe AA can pick up scabair's pacific routes in the bankruptcy court. Same thing with United and UScare. Yes, it's a gamble but it's a better option than sitting here and doing nothing. As far as me getting unscathed, where have you been? This industry is the worst in the world and,if you haven't planned for a new career by now then you deserve to be clobbered in bankruptcy court.

The people and the government wanted airline deregulation. Well I say let's give them deregulation!

I guess the old saying "God made stupid people too" is really true.

There are a lot of people that are glad that you aren't running the show princess.

 

[Borescope]

No other airline has filed a chapter 11 petition and gone on to survive since the new law took effect, as far as I know.

The book is still open on Frontier.

 

[Hi-C-Camp]

So, what's your solution to the problem? Please tell us with your great wisdom what your great idea is to reduce capacity in this god forsaken industry? Even the great eolesen is speechless on this point. They aren't going to re-regulate the airlines,at least not in the near future anyway. What are we going to do? Keep bleeding money until we are bankrupt anyway? Yeah,that's real smart thing to do. Right now AA has a "war chest" of cash. These other airlines are leveraged to the hilt because they just came out of bankruptcy. Start a fare war and these other airlines are in Chapter 7. Delta and Northworst won't be able to merge and maybe AA can pick up scabair's pacific routes in the bankruptcy court. Same thing with United and UScare. Yes, it's a gamble but it's a better option than sitting here and doing nothing. As far as me getting unscathed, where have you been? This industry is the worst in the world and,if you haven't planned for a new career by now then you deserve to be clobbered in bankruptcy court.

The people and the government wanted airline deregulation. Well I say let's give them deregulation!

You are sssoooooo naive... AMR DOES NOT have a war chest of cash, that is survival money.. AMR has more debt than it does cash, just like the rest of us... We all have cash on hand as well sista, It would be a war chest if you had zero debt and were sitting on that money... Not EVEN HARDLY the case... You need to do some serious homework before you post..

 

[eolesen]

Sorry, Princess. I'm not speechless, just busy flying your foresaken airline....

I don't have the answer on exactly what AA needs to do, but one thing is for certain. This isn't 2003, and AA's going to have to change their business model. Trying to be all things to all customers isn't going to work heading into a recession.

There are a lot of reports showing how LAS, HNL, and other resort type areas are taking a beating right now as leisure travel starts to dry up (due in part to people starting to tighten their own belts and spend less on vacations, which is no doubt coupled to all the increases in airfare).

The rumors of a 15% capacity cut at AA are a good start. I say park the AB6 and 762 fleets, shrink back the overall size of AA's operation to fund aircraft to backfill the frequencies necessary to serve the Caribbean and transcons. Park the E135's and S340's, and pull back Eagle's ASM's accordingly to stay in compliance with scope.

The traditional Airline 101 rulebook went out the window when oil hit $80. And I'd be shocked to ever see it drop back below $70 ever again.

 

[777 fixer]

One uncertainty that all seem to be avoiding - bankruptcy court is not the same as it was prior to 31 October, 2005. A few of the abusable loopholes were plugged, but...

The airlines that have filed BK recently (with the exception of Frontier, due to an a-hole credit card processor) have gone out of business (as it should be). There are no examples of the new law's application to draw on with respect to a reorganization. Delta and Northwest (both obviously with an eye to the future) filed at almost the last minute to take advantage of the old law and at almost the same time. No other airline has filed a chapter 11 petition and gone on to survive since the new law took effect, as far as I know.

I'm not interested in being a test case, but I'm even less interested in allowing yuppie scum to loot the company (and shareholders) as they have for job performance near and below the call of duty (as they have), contract or not.

Even under the old BK laws filling was no guarantee for survival for an airline. Of all the airlines that have gone through the BK process since deregulation only two were around ten years latter as far as I know. Those two being Continental and America West.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

What's the matter? Are you too scared Hi-C-Koolaid drinker? Afraid you might lose your job? Oh you poor baby. What a bunch of wimps! Are you guys "chicken"?

 

[BigBangTheory]

The book is still open on Frontier.

And they're being squeezed by LUV, as we speak. LUV just added additonal routes out of DEN and its a matter of time before F9 is gone. Its sad but, its true.

 

[eolesen]

What's the matter? Are you too scared Hi-C-Koolaid drinker? Afraid you might lose your job? Oh you poor baby. What a bunch of wimps! Are you guys "chicken"?

Chicken or just realists?.... The only way a fare war works is if someone is stupid enough to match.

Stacking 'em deep and selling 'em cheap hasn't been seen in the airline pricing for about two years, and I wouldn't expect it to show up anytime soon.

In a day and age where foreclosures, fuel and food prices are at record levels, and housing values are in the crapper, people are definitely thinking twice before they walk off a cliff. And that includes the guys who set pricing.

 

[DallasConehead]

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