Any Comments From The Ual On This Article

Doc,
Delaying BK exit is probably a good thing right now. let me explain.

1. Pension funding: two factors that "should be" changing right now have huge pension implications. The first is LT interest rates. As they go down (ie, when you can get a dirt cheap mortgage), pension obligation goes up BIGTIME. The second is, of course, rate of return on investments. Companies will usually report two diff pension numbers. One is the "actuarial" funding level. the company "assumes a certain rate of return. To prevent wildly differant levels of contribution YOY, the use what the fund should have in assest if the ROR was the same every year. Then they report the actual funding level. If the market has a strong recovery in Q3 2003- Q1 2004, our pension funding isues are effectively solved. With some analyst expecting at least a 4.5% GDP growth rate, that could happen. Delaying BK exit could mean that the company is attempting to take pension termination off the table.

2. BK gives you flexibility. If there was a terrorist attack, UAL could again quit paying it's leases. you can't do that outside BK.

How is the BK process going? It seems to be going pretty good at the moment (if any good can be found out of the loss of jobs by thousands of people.) as near as I can figure, here is UAL current EBITAR (the only thing that matters for BK) performance.

First 6 months
either a loss of 246 million or a profit of 54 million depending on how the government "rebate" in Q2 was counted.
July
"profit" of approx 169 million.
August, IMHO, will be an EBITAR profit of around 250 million, which would leave UAL going into Sept with a cumulative performance of 473 million profit or 173 million profit, again, depending on how the "rebate" is credited. UAL appears safe on the DIP requirements until at least december. and just so there is no missunderstanding, missing DIP does NOT equal liquidation. it is my understanding that U did NOT meet DIP for even ONE month while in BK.
 
This is a good article.

Over all - I think that Mr. Tilton is a very smart man. All of the pundits think he's rudder-less and constantly reversing course.

However, I would argue that he knows exactly what he's doing and using the press to reassure customers.

Come on, he's not an idiot like some would have you believe.
 
History should treat Glen Tilton kindly. The man is not as charismatic as Patterson, but when you think of the gargantuan turnaround this man is trying to affect his leadership skills and stamina are second to none.

One measure of Tilton's confidence is the free reign he has given to John Tague. Just the fact that these fantastic marketing promotions are coming from UAL is amazing enough, but when you consider the fact that they are not getting bogged down in the minutae that is WHQ it boggles the mind.
 
Well said 737.

A big problem United has had is a long term CEO. Tilton has a 6 year deal...I assume he'll retire when his contract is up.

Tague is young. Let's hope he delivers and can be a long-term CEO. One thing that is envy about AA is they have only had a handful of CEO's. (BTW I still can't believe the turn of events that lead to Carty's resignation. He truly did it to himself though.)

United needs long term stability and leadership. If only Edwardson would have become CEO. But, we're looking to the future and lets hope Tague is our guy.
 
Well, all of you have seemed to find the silver lining in this article although it seems you are on the right track I have never trusted any of them at the top Mr. Sprayregen hasn’t got a plan to submit and it will be impossible to predict what the climate in this industry will be after labor day I for one believe that it will be a long slow recovery mostly because of the fare structure and Southwest, Jet blue , International travel is rising but the airline are selling there souls for market share.

I am new to this forum and have been reading all the bantering back and forth between you know who. It is my belief that we need each other more than most of know this code share makes money for both we are all employee’s and I hope that we all survive and all our brother and sisters can get called back.
 
Doc,

Don't confuse lack of information about a plan for lack of a plan. In this highly competitive industry, UAL would be foolish to release details of their restructuring plan until they absolutely have to. What I read in these articles is frustration from analysts who want to be in the know but feel excluded.

I don't believe UAL will be profitable when it emerges from CH11, but neither was USAirways. What they have going for them will be some of the best costs in the (mature) industry. I believe this will enable them to weather the storm until the economy makes a full recovery.

Please keep in mind that this is my opinion only. Don't take anything I say as gospel.


737
 
737nCH11:

With the informal count indicating H.R. 2719, the Airline Pension Act of 2003, does not have enough votes to become law, and with the company's four defined benefit retirements plans underfunded by $6 to $7.5 billion, how will this effect United's plan of reorganization, disclousre statement, and loan guarantee application?

Furthermore, what's your opinion of the New York Times indicating "people inside and outside the company said United was considering options that included postponing some of its pension contributions, contributing its own stock to the pension plans, freezing benefit accruals, and terminating one or more of its pension plans entirely."

The Times continued, "In addition, United is one of several airlines seeking pension relief through proposed legislation that would exempt all the major airlines from the rules governing pension funding. Such a bill is pending in the House, but it is considered a long shot."

As I have said, with new reports the Chicago-based airline is now losing $6 to $6.5 million per day, the airline undecided when it will submit its POR (which is required to be submitted to the court during the 180-day extension period that ends in early December), the huge pension issue, and the inability to obtain exit financing nearly 9 months after filing for its formal reorganization, I have become much more sanguine regarding the company's prospects.

Regards,

Chip
 
Doc,

I assume that you are a USAirways employee.

I agree with you that the code share agreement is great for both companies. Do you guys have any sort of protection against UAL taking your long haul flying? This is what I would be most concerned with, since Seigel appears to be bound and determined to transform a once great airline into a northeastern regional carrier.

Keep your chin up. Both companies will survive and eventually thrive. It will just take some time.

Regards,


737
 
737nCH11 said:
UAL would be foolish to release details of their restructuring plan until they absolutely have to. What I read in these articles is frustration from analysts who want to be in the know but feel excluded.
737nCH11,

Did you notice the comment in the article about UA looking into ways to resolve the pension issue? I think people will be suprised by the outcome of this. Tilton is a smart guy and is looking into multiple options that will be mutually agreeable to all parties.

I heard some info from one mid-level source that I have, but it would not be popular with some employee groups. He told me that terminating the pilots pension will not necessarily solve the problem, but interestingly enough, terminating all other pension plans EXCEPT the pilots, would. This wouldn't make the pilot group very popular amoung other employees, but it is an option that is being discussed.

Since UA has recently been profitable, at least from a daily cash flow point of view, and has been increasing it's cash balance significantly in recent months, I doubt anything that drastic will occur. Pension plans will certainly see some modifications. That I'm sure of. But in the end it will be a multi-facited solution that will keep the pensions mostly intact.

The so-called "analysts" will be informed when Tilton and UA are good and ready to let them know. Until then they can cry all they want. :(
 
767jetz said:
737nCH11,

I heard some info from one mid-level source that I have, but it would not be popular with some employee groups. He told me that terminating the pilots pension will not necessarily solve the problem, but interestingly enough, terminating all other pension plans EXCEPT the pilots, would. This wouldn't make the pilot group very popular amoung other employees, but it is an option that is being discussed.

Since UA has recently been profitable, at least from a daily cash flow point of view, and has been increasing it's cash balance significantly in recent months, I doubt anything that drastic will occur. Pension plans will certainly see some modifications. That I'm sure of. But in the end it will be a multi-facited solution that will keep the pensions mostly intact.
ALPA has always had "stricter" rules concerning pension funding levels. Waybe we're just paranoid. <_< . I think the young crowd would prefer a "defined contribution" cash balance plan, and the oldr crowd would prefer to keep the DB. Who knows, they may attempt some change like that
 
767jetz,

Time is the ally of Ual employees on this one. It lets Tilton come up with a way to sort this mess out, it lets interest rates rise, and it lets Congress (hopefully) figure out a legislative solution. I don't know if you subscribe to Investor's Business Daily or not, but there was an article in there last week about coming up with a solution that would work across all industries, not just airlines. It sounded pretty promising, although it would only be a temporary solution.

737
 
The New York Times article painted a bleak picture for United going forward, however, I believe John Tague, United's executive vice president for customers, provided inappropriate and maybe even cruel information to employees when he told reporters last week that the bankrupt company has "turned the corner" in its battle to boost revenues and staunch crippling losses. "The revenue turnaround has begun," he said . "We're seeing the company's financial situation gain a great deal of stability."

Meanwhile, during the company's Omnibus hearing on Friday, United's bankruptcy counsel James Sprayregen told the court "It remains to be seen whether the revenue recovery will be short-or long-lived."

Well, why is Sprayregen disputing Tague's comments to the judge, who ultimately would have to approve a Disclosure Statement, if one is presented?

As I have repeatedly have said, many industry observers worry about how airlines will fare once demand tapers off after the Labor Day holiday. Furthermore, how will this effects United's stringent October and November DIP financing requirements?

"It's hard to ferret-out what is a blip and what is a recovery," said Nicolas Owens, airline analysts, Morningstar Inc., a Chicago-based investment research firm. "It's more likely that (recent operating profit) is a blip."

Meanwhile, Michael Boyd, founder of the Boyd Group, Evergreen, Colo., an airline consulting firm commented, "This airline is rudderless. They need direction from the top or they're not going anyplace."

Boyd and other analysts openly speculate that United may be using temporary measures to boost profits but will eventually have to confront mounting leases and pensions.

Best regards,

Chip
 
Busdrvr,

I think you are on to something when you say that a defined contribution is the way to go. How would UAL go about shifting funds in the A plan over to the PDAP?

I realize that this will sound uncaring, but what about terminating A plan contributions to future new hires? It wouldn't do much now, but in the future is would amount to tremendous cost savings.