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April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

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I defy any West pilot to explain how the LOA 93 arbitration was immediately final and binding, yet the Nicolau is still challenged unsuccessfully again and again to this day.

Against my better judgement, and since you are truly an idiot completely devoid of any situational awareness, I will take you challenge and try to explain.

The LOA93 arbitratio was immediately final and binding, and so was the Nic. The difference between the two is you had absolutely zero recourse after LOA93 other than to go off the reservation with an illegal work action and get a restraining order thrown against your scab union.

Had the company lost the LOA93 grievance, they could have easily, and likely told you to go F yourself and sue them in court, and see if the court will make them pay. In that case you would walk into court with the arbitration result "powerful evidence of a fair outcome", and likely won and forced the company to pay.

Similarly, the Nic was just as final and binding. One side, the scab side, that would be you and your usapa jack wagons, decided to renege and said, sue us in court. We walked into court with the arbitration results, and forced you to adhere to the nic via a restraining order.

Now of course, we had the 9th decided that until you do not use the Nic, then you haven't really unquestionably not used it, so we all have to wait until you don't, then we go right back to court to tell you you have to use the "final and binding arbitrated result".

So, here we are with an MOU, in which the scab union has "unquestionably" not used the product of a final and binding arbitration amongst the membership it has a DFR toward.

Se you in court scab!
 
Hey Westies, ever wonder why the process has changed? They don't say because the east didn't honor their final and binding process and agreement. Instead they changed the specified requirements along with the addition of two more arbitrators. Does that not tell you the former process was flawed and that a single arbitrator is subject to making mistakes? How many arbitrations has Nicolau done since his botched job on us?

The biggest change I see in all of that is the joint contract occurs prior to the seniority integration to put an end to the lowlife separate ops, destructive path the east's scab union has caused within the industry.
 
Must be some bad news out there for the westies. Every time they get bad news they disappear for a while, only to come back yelling about "integrity" and "final and binding".

We await their return....

You do realize that there are only about 10 of you east idiots still posting here, and that the West pilots get 5 weeks of vacation a year and have pretty much run out of time and patience to waste any of it educating you morons?


PS. What could be the bad news? Haven't you heard? There is merger on and we are going to be working for the worlds largest airline.

Of course every now and again we will have to hear some ex-east whiner crying about how he got screwed by a senile arbitrator and an incompetent judge, but other than that, life is good!
 
April 22, 2013

Leonidas Update

Today, four filings were made related to the West pilots. First, AMR and the UCC jointly filed a motion to dismiss USAPA’s claim in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in NY. You can read the AMR/UCC motion to dismiss here. Along with this motion, a memorandum in support was also filed which you can read here. We highly recommend that you read this second filing, particularly the argument section. We agree with a lot of what the UCC and AMR argue, but we take issue with their characterization of the West legal position. Nobody on the West wants to stop the merger. All we are demanding is that a final and binding arbitration be honored. That’s it.

The other two filings were USAPA’s motion to dismiss the West Pilots’ claim along with their memorandum in support. You can read these filings here and here. We can summarize both this way: (1) not ripe; (2) the DFR is a minor dispute and not a major dispute, meaning that we should be in front of another arbitrator instead of in federal court; and (3) that we fail to state a claim for several reasons. All we care to say about USAPA’s filings is that they present no new or novel arguments; what we read in them is exactly what we have heard all along. Nevertheless, we are delighted that the UCC and AMR argue quite persuasively in their filings that Addington II is ripe and should be adjudicated in Judge Silver’s court.

We have a busy docket ahead of us. Please review the scheduling order for a list of due dates. The final brief will be from the West and it is due on May 9th. Then there will be a joint status report filed by all the parties, followed by an in-court hearing on May 14th before Judge Silver. Once these briefs are submitted and once the hearing is completed, we expect that Judge Silver will rule on whether the West is entitled to a preliminary injunction that mandates use of the Nicolau. We expect that decision to arrive in late summer or early fall. If successful, then we will return to court to litigate over the issuance of a permanent injunction. That second process will likely involve a trial, just like the trial that was held before Judge Conrad in the US Airways suit against USAPA in North Carolina wherein witnesses were called and arguments were made.

Finally, we would like to announce that a Meet and Greet with the West attorneys is scheduled for Friday, May 17th at 9AM. The location is the Coast Phoenix Sky Harbor Hotel, 4300 East Washington Street, Phoenix, AZ 85034 in the Oasis Room, 602-273-7778. In the meantime, we thank you for your unwavering support. Six years ago, nobody believed the West pilot group would stick together. We did, and we do believe that all your faith, trust and support is about to pay off.

Have a great evening.

Sincerely,

Leonidas, LLC
 
April 22, 2013

Leonidas Update

Today, four filings were made related to the West pilots. First, AMR and the UCC jointly filed a motion to dismiss USAPA’s claim in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in NY. You can read the AMR/UCC motion to dismiss here. Along with this motion, a memorandum in support was also filed which you can read here. We highly recommend that you read this second filing, particularly the argument section. We agree with a lot of what the UCC and AMR argue, but we take issue with their characterization of the West legal position. Nobody on the West wants to stop the merger. All we are demanding is that a final and binding arbitration be honored. That’s it.

The other two filings were USAPA’s motion to dismiss the West Pilots’ claim along with their memorandum in support. You can read these filings here and here. We can summarize both this way: (1) not ripe; (2) the DFR is a minor dispute and not a major dispute, meaning that we should be in front of another arbitrator instead of in federal court; and (3) that we fail to state a claim for several reasons. All we care to say about USAPA’s filings is that they present no new or novel arguments; what we read in them is exactly what we have heard all along. Nevertheless, we are delighted that the UCC and AMR argue quite persuasively in their filings that Addington II is ripe and should be adjudicated in Judge Silver’s court.

We have a busy docket ahead of us. Please review the scheduling order for a list of due dates. The final brief will be from the West and it is due on May 9th. Then there will be a joint status report filed by all the parties, followed by an in-court hearing on May 14th before Judge Silver. Once these briefs are submitted and once the hearing is completed, we expect that Judge Silver will rule on whether the West is entitled to a preliminary injunction that mandates use of the Nicolau. We expect that decision to arrive in late summer or early fall. If successful, then we will return to court to litigate over the issuance of a permanent injunction. That second process will likely involve a trial, just like the trial that was held before Judge Conrad in the US Airways suit against USAPA in North Carolina wherein witnesses were called and arguments were made.

Finally, we would like to announce that a Meet and Greet with the West attorneys is scheduled for Friday, May 17th at 9AM. The location is the Coast Phoenix Sky Harbor Hotel, 4300 East Washington Street, Phoenix, AZ 85034 in the Oasis Room, 602-273-7778. In the meantime, we thank you for your unwavering support. Six years ago, nobody believed the West pilot group would stick together. We did, and we do believe that all your faith, trust and support is about to pay off.

Have a great evening.

Sincerely,

Leonidas, LLC
Still not ripe!
 
Against my better judgement, and since you are truly an idiot completely devoid of any situational awareness, I will take you challenge and try to explain.

The LOA93 arbitratio was immediately final and binding, and so was the Nic. The difference between the two is you had absolutely zero recourse after LOA93 other than to go off the reservation with an illegal work action and get a restraining order thrown against your scab union.

Had the company lost the LOA93 grievance, they could have easily, and likely told you to go F yourself and sue them in court, and see if the court will make them pay. In that case you would walk into court with the arbitration result "powerful evidence of a fair outcome", and likely won and forced the company to pay.

Similarly, the Nic was just as final and binding. One side, the scab side, that would be you and your usapa jack wagons, decided to renege and said, sue us in court. We walked into court with the arbitration results, and forced you to adhere to the nic via a restraining order.

Now of course, we had the 9th decided that until you do not use the Nic, then you haven't really unquestionably not used it, so we all have to wait until you don't, then we go right back to court to tell you you have to use the "final and binding arbitrated result".

So, here we are with an MOU, in which the scab union has "unquestionably" not used the product of a final and binding arbitration amongst the membership it has a DFR toward.

Se you in court scab!

Thank you for delivering what you usually do: a fairy tale laced with scab references.
None of it factual.
The most interesting ( and delusional) part is the explanation as to why the company did not use the Nic, and the West group to this day has not been able to implement it. So if the company played dumb with the Nic , why was the West equally powerless to implement it? Two parties supposedly wanting to implement a "binding" arbitration. Yet there are two separate ops right now, six years later!
Try explaining that please, without your hallmark scab insinuations and insults.
I would imagine it is beyond your skillset.

The part I am most interested in you addressing is why you have engaged USAPA in a continuous legal battle over the Nic. Yet you claim the company accepted the list. Why have you fought a continuous "internal" battle with your union, yet no real battle has been realized with the company. Why not? I know the answer, but I want to put you on the spot.
 
The biggest change I see in all of that is the joint contract occurs prior to the seniority integration to put an end to the lowlife separate ops, destructive path the east's scab union has caused within the industry.

I thought the "binding" arbitration would have immediately stopped that from happening. Every other union on the property integrated immediately. Why not the pilots Nic4?
 
East and AMR hiring.

West has furloughs.

Explain that shortly.


Inexplicable to me. You would think that the Army of Leonidas would at least have to replace their "combat" losses! I guess they've been so busy saving the East all these years, that they forgot to save much for themselves.


seajay
 
Judge Silver will dismiss. The case is not ripe. Nothing is different in front of her. Nothing has ACTUALLY changed. There is a new MOU, but it is conditional on the merger happening.

As to the MOU, the case law supports USAPA. Since the West Class ratified it, there is legal precedent that prevents them from suing with a DFR.

And besides all that....they make ZERO case in their DFR claim. They do not even address the standards required to frame a DFR.

It’s over. Judge Silver will dismiss. The POR will come and go. And in their filing to the Ninth, the Company agrees....we all move on to a new process.

Read the USAPA motion to dismiss. It’s all there, and it has real case law in it, not nebulous Harper mumbo jumbo recycled Wake arguments (which WILL be thrown out by Silver....the law says that even never happened. Even Judge Wake said it never happened.)

Greeter
 
You do realize that there are only about 10 of you east idiots still posting here, and that the West pilots get 5 weeks of vacation a year and have pretty much run out of time and patience to waste any of it educating you morons?


PS. What could be the bad news? Haven't you heard? There is merger on and we are going to be working for the worlds largest airline.

Of course every now and again we will have to hear some ex-east whiner crying about how he got screwed by a senile arbitrator and an incompetent judge, but other than that, life is good!
Back from vacation so soon?
 
Judge Silver will dismiss. The case is not ripe. Nothing is different in front of her. Nothing has ACTUALLY changed. There is a new MOU, but it is conditional on the merger happening.

As to the MOU, the case law supports USAPA. Since the West Class ratified it, there is legal precedent that prevents them from suing with a DFR.

And besides all that....they make ZERO case in their DFR claim. They do not even address the standards required to frame a DFR.

It’s over. Judge Silver will dismiss. The POR will come and go. And in their filing to the Ninth, the Company agrees....we all move on to a new process.

Read the USAPA motion to dismiss. It’s all there, and it has real case law in it, not nebulous Harper mumbo jumbo recycled Wake arguments (which WILL be thrown out by Silver....the law says that even never happened. Even Judge Wake said it never happened.)

Greeter

I did.

West Pilots’ overwhelming support for the MOU precludes a DFR claim.
The complaint alleges that “The MOU was ratified by 75% of USAPA’s membership
on February 8, 2013.” (Complaint, ¶ 79) In fact, 97.69% of the Phoenix pilots voted for
the MOU.9 Plaintiffs admit they understood that the MOU did not address the Nicolau
9 See Official Election Results issued by USAPA’s Ballot Certification Committee,
Exhibit A to the Declaration of Patrick J. Szymanski attached hereto. Because the vote
count is alleged in the complaint and there can be no question as to the authenticity of the
document, the Court may consider it. See Twombly, 550 U.S. at 568 n.13, 127 S.Ct. at
1973 n.13 (district court was entitled to take notice of full contents of article referenced in
complaint); Parrino v. FHP, Inc. 146 F.3d 699, 705-06 (9th Cir. 1998), superseded by issue (Complaint, ¶82) and that USAPA entered into the MOU with the “firm intention”of using date of hire list instead of the Nicolau list. (Id. at ¶99) Under these circumstances
and in light of their overwhelming ratification of the MOU, Plaintiffs fail to state a claim
for breach of the duty of fair representation. Gullickson v. Southwest Airlines Pilots’
Ass’n, 87 F.3d 1176, 1183-84 (10th Cir. 1996); see also Papcin v. Dichello Distributors,
Inc., 697 F.Supp. 73, 80 (D. Conn. 1988) (In dismissing plaintiffs’ hybrid DFR claim,
finding that the 1980 agreement modified seniority provisions, and “plaintiffs knew this
to be the case when they voted to ratify the 1980 agreement.), judgment aff’d in
unpublished decision 862 F.2d 304 (2d Cir. 1988). Under these cases, the overwhelming
approval of the MOU amounts to ratification of USAPA’s decision not to include the
Nicolau list in the MOU and “a knowing and voluntary waiver” of any DFR claim
against USAPA based on the MOU. The DFR claim should be dismissed on this
independent ground.
Gullickson, 87 F.3d at 1185.

I was at the Phoenix roadshow along with a room full of witnesses. Pat avoided and danced around any seniority related question, even so far as saying he's not going to re-argue statement's he made in Silver's court. He had a much easier time answering these questions in Charlotte.

Wouldn't you think, if he was speaking for USAPA, to fairly represent the interests of the pilots of the Phoenix domicile as well?

98% of us did not wake up one morning and vote DOH over the Nic.

Judge Silver is smarter than that.
 
Snapper, you paid Marty to represent you. His gross MOU miscalculation precluded any rational thought on your part. You never listened to Pat before anyway. The blame rests squarely on Marty and your blind allegiance.
 
Where is Captain Gay when you need him to pipe you more stupid theories before you get frog marched into Silvers Court to face reality?
 
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