April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[jetjok1]

Not cool, especially with deadheading crews. I look at at this way. As a former football player and now an avid fan, I can root for my team without throwing beers on the opposing fans. I've found some common ground the my opponents whether it be politics or the 727. I also remember my old friends who took a fork in the road, went East and my new friends who came West.

I can dislike the team and not hate the fans. At least I try.

Well said Snap

 

[jetjok1]

After 8 years of trying to screw over the west you just now were ignored by a crew. It must have bothered you because you brought it up.

I have been getting the head turn, look at their shoes ignore from east pilots for years.

It is going to be real fun around here when judge Silver rolls the Nicolau up tight and inserts it as the only seniority list for US Airways pilots. You east pilots going to be friendly and say hello then?

Yes, just like I always have and always will. Except for a few, I have a lot of respect for the west guys....after all, I was one of them

 

[Metroyet]

Yes, just like I always have and always will. Except for a few, I have a lot of respect for the west guys....after all, I was one of them

Did you leave America West in the late 90's for the "greener pastures" of Stephen Wolf's New Us Air? That would explain a lot.

 

[jetjok1]

Did you leave America West in the late 90's for the "greener pastures" of Stephen Wolf's New Us Air? That would explain a lot.

No, towards the beginning of its existence. Would that explain a lot?

 

[snapthis]

Greeter mentioned there were no furloughed pilots at US Airways, I spent the past day and a half going through the transcripts below. Rather than listen to Usapian spin, read the record. ​

​

​

​

BEFORE THE ALPA ARBITRATION BOARD​

2​

3 - - - - - - - - - - - - -x​

4 THE CREW MEMBERS OF :​

5 US AIRWAYS :​

6 Plaintiff, :​

7 vs. :​

8 THE CREW MEMBERS OF :​

9 AMERICA WEST AIRLINES :​

10 Defendant. :​

11 - - - - - - - - - - - - -x​

12​

13 HEARING​

14​

15 GEORGE NICOLAU, Chairman​

16 CAPTAIN STEVE GILLEN, Pilot Neutral​

17 CAPTAIN JIM BRUCIA, Pilot Neutral​

18​

19 Washington, D.C.​

20 Monday, December 4, 2006​

21 REPORTED BY:​

22 DONALD R. THACKER​

First of all, let's not be deceived by the
2 fact that the name of the company is US Airways.
3 America West and, outside investors, acquired US
4 Airways, there is no two ways about that.
5 I think the best place to look to
6 understand what the consequences for the merger was
7 on the US Airways pilots is the words of US Airways
8 own CEO, Mr. Lakefield said, quoted it in our brief,
9 I am going to short quote, I am going to read it
10 again here, he said "there were times when we felt
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11 we would not be able to stay in business for more
12 than a few weeks. But we did, and what we have now
13 is far more than we could have hoped for."
14 As we sit here today US Airways pilots are
15 being recalled to fly aircraft they couldn't
16 possibly have acquired without this transaction.
17 As we sit here today US Airways pilots are
18 on the verge of obtaining literally hundreds of
19 millions of dollars in economic benefit just from
20 coming to parity with the America West collective
21 bargaining agreement.

So let's talk with the facts for a moment.
5 As I said, US Airways was a failed carrier as of
6 May 18th, the day before the merger announcement,
7 May 18th, 2005.

At the time of the merger announcement it
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12 had 26 days of cash available, and I might add that
13 as of the day of the closing it had five days of
14 cash available to it.
15 It found itself in that circumstance, that
16 cash circumstance notwithstanding the fact that it
17 had sold off a significant chunk of its assets to
18 East Shore, otherwise known as Republic, for
19 $125 million. As we said in our opening statement,
20 we can all think back to the days of Pan Am when Pan
21 Am was busily selling off its real estate including
22 its building in Manhattan, we were involved in
_
36
1 negotiations during that time, we remember it well,
2 I am sure everybody in this room remembers it well,
3 it was burning its furniture in order to keep heat,
4 and it didn't -- it didn't succeed, burning the
5 furniture never works, it didn't work in Pan Am and
6 it wasn't going to work here.

10 During the course of bankruptcy two it
11 returned huge numbers of aircraft and had more
12 aircraft scheduled to be returned and when I say
13 returned, they were -- they were yanked, the company
14 hadn't hired a single pilot since the year 2000
15 notwithstanding retirement, notwithstanding the
16 attrition they had not hired a single pilot since
17 the year 2000, and a pilot's who had been hired as
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18 far back as 2000 were on furlough. The early 2000
19 pilots were on furlough.
20 Critically, US Airways had no plan of
21 reorganization, they had no plan of reorganization,
22 they had missed several dates for the filing of a
_
37
1 plan of reorganization, and there was none there.
2 There was no viable plan of reorganization for US
3 Airways prior to the merger, and its only future,
4 absent this transaction was a controlled liquidation
5 of its assets.
18 The consequence to America West was really

19 exactly the opposite of the consequence, the​

20 consequence to the America West pilots is the exact​

21 opposite of the consequences to the US Airways​

22 pilots.​

42​

1 America West, notwithstanding that it was​

2 slate Todd grow to 161 aircraft by the end of 2007,​

3 as a consequence of the order of the 22 A320​

4 aircraft stopped growing, and the promotional​

5 opportunities that would have been there had those​

6 aircraft been delivered as scheduled disappeared.

 

[Pi brat]

Did you leave America West in the late 90's for the "greener pastures" of Stephen Wolf's New Us Air? That would explain a lot.

Did you leave US Airways in late 2004, leaving behind your 17 years of longevity and starting over at the brown pastures of AWA? That would explain a lot.

 

[snapthis]

In contrast to US Airways on the day prior​

13 to the merger, there were no America West pilots on​

14 furlough, America West of course like every other​

15 carrier in the country had if you are lows following​

16 September 11th, but those if you are lows didn't​

17 last very long. Most of them, as I look back onto​

18 the list, most of them lasted a couple of months,​

19 none of them lasted for longer than a year.​

20 Everybody was recalled by September of 2002, and​

21 following the recall of the last furloughed pilot,​

22 9-11 furloughed pilot America West had hired some​

39​

1 360 additional pilots.​

2 In short, the airline was a functioning,​

3 viable, competitive company that provided secure​

4 jobs for its pilots and that was slated to provide​

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1204ARB1​

5 promotional opportunities as a result of the​

6 delivery of the remainder of that order of 22 A320s​

7 that had been partially delivered prior to the​

8 merger announcement.​

9 Those are about as stark a set of airlines​

10 as one could imagine, in this airline environment.​

11 You had one airline that was growing and was stable​

12 and one airline that was, again with respect to our​

13 colleagues, was a failed business, failed carrier,​

14 and did not offer the prospect of any career​

15 enhancement, let alone career stability to its​

16 employees. Not just its pilots but to its employees​

17 as a whole.​

18 So what are the consequences of the​

19 merger.​

20 Q Because I think that is something else​

21 that has to be taken into account, when assessing​

22 how these lists should be put together.​

.​

5 I think the best place to look to​

6 understand what the consequences for the merger was​

7 on the US Airways pilots is the words of US Airways​

8 own CEO, Mr. Lakefield said, quoted it in our brief,​

9 I am going to short quote, I am going to read it​

10 again here, he said "there were times when we felt​

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1204ARB1​

11 we would not be able to stay in business for more​

12 than a few weeks. But we did, and what we have now​

13 is far more than we could have hoped for."​

14 As we sit here today US Airways pilots are​

15 being recalled to fly aircraft they couldn't​

16 possibly have acquired without this transaction.​

17 As we sit here today US Airways pilots are​

18 on the verge of obtaining literally hundreds of​

19 millions of dollars in economic benefit just from​

20 coming to parity with the America West collective​

21 bargaining agreement. And that is the case​

22 notwithstanding the fact that the US Airways pilots​

41​

1 collective bargaining agreement on a stand alone​

2 basis, if you want to assume that they could have​

3 stood alone, we don't assume it but if you want to​

4 assume it for purposes of thinking about what I am​

5 saying, the US Airways pilots collective bargaining​

6 agreement was not amendable until 2010,​

7 notwithstanding that, they will be the inheritors of​

8 hundreds of millions of dollars of pay and benefit​

9 increases as a consequence literally just of coming​

10 to parity, putting to one side the question of what​

11 additional increases may be negotiated as a​

12 consequence of the merger. I

I am not making any​

13 predictions obviously about what those negotiations​

14 might produce, all I can say is that they are, the​

15 parties are in negotiations and that proposing wage​

16 increases over and above what it takes to bring the​

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17 US Airways pilots to parity.​

18 The consequence to America West was really​

19 exactly the opposite of the consequence, the​

20 consequence to the America West pilots is the exact​

21 opposite of the consequences to the US Airways​

22 pilots.​

42​

1 America West, notwithstanding that it was​

2 slate Todd grow to 161 aircraft by the end of 2007,​

3 as a consequence of the order of the 22 A320​

4 aircraft stopped growing, and the promotional​

5 opportunities that would have been there had those​

6 aircraft been delivered as scheduled disappeared.​

7 Additionally on the economic front, again​

8 I am not going to try to predict what the America​

9 West pilots would have been able to negotiate on​

10 their own. The only thing I can say is, and I think​

11 this really goes without saying, there are scarce​

12 dollars that are available for bargaining over​

13 wages, and it is going to take a huge number of​

14 those dollars in order to bring the you US Airways​

15 pilots to parity with the America West pilots and​

16 the use of those scarce dollars to bring the US​

17 Airways pilots to parity with the America West​

18 pilots will mean just in the normal course of​

19 things, we are all big boys and girls, we have all​

20 been through these situations before, it will mean​

21 nothing more and nothing less than the fact that​

22 there will be less dollars available for wage​

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43​

1 increases and benefit improvements for the America​

2 West pilots than there would have been under​

3 alternative scenarios.​

4 Those are the facts, those are critical​

5 facts, those are the facts on which we say and we​

6 believe one has to base an assessment of what the​

7 pre merger career expectations of the two pilots​

8 were and what the consequences of the merger were​

9 for the two pilot groups.​

 

[Res Judicata]

Did you leave US Airways in late 2004, leaving behind your 17 years of longevity and starting over at the brown pastures of AWA? That would explain a lot.

I'm in neither pasture.

 

[nevergiveup]

I'm in neither pasture.

Somebody opened the gate!

 

[EastUS1]

electricjet98, on 03 May 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

While you wish to move our #1 guy down the list to about 800-900 or so? So nice of you!

Situational ethics... It's how he rolls.

There's nothing at all "situational" about ethics, nor have ethics any concern for being "nice". You either have them or you don't...and imo you don't. Were I number one anywhere, but had less time worked than 800-900 or so of another outfit that was to be combined; I'd not be whining about being placed below them....nor whooping it up in some bizarre little Fantasyland, insanely pretending myself some noble "knight" or "spartan", or that I even had ANY actual ethics whatsoever (much less being any farcical paradigm of "Integrity") if I were seeking the insanely inflated "seniority" you're so greedily after. I believe in respecting the work, the experience and the contributions of others. You don't...Period.

I gave up on any suggestions to grow up, so just rant away, mighty little "spartans" and noble "knights"...and please don't sic the dreaded "dire wolves" on me. 🙂

PS: If your read the preceeding with incredulity, shocked and yeah-sure, utter disbelief; then you have no ethics, and are merely a purely opportunistic individual = " Were I number one anywhere, but had less time worked than 800-900 or so of another outfit that was to be combined; I'd not be whining about being placed below them..."

 

[EastUS1]

... AOL will file suit after every single development until we find ripeness.

Have fun kids! It's good to see you enjoying your hobby. At least you're not in prison or on drugs..well...that last is admittedly speculative. 🙂

 

[Claxon]

Greeter mentioned there were no furloughed pilots at US Airways, I spent the past day and a half going through the transcripts below. Rather than listen to Usapian spin, read the record. ​

You just spent the last day and a half reading about spilled milk and water under the bridge outside the 9th circuit court and Wye River.

American just recalled its last pilot and is now working its way back up to those that deferred.

"Last November the company's vice president of flight, John Hale, said that American planned to recall an additional 40 pilots a month "for the foreseeable future" because of expected retirements and "operational needs." Ask Marty about this during the meet and greed.

http://finance.yahoo...-211250388.html

 

[electricjet98]

PS: If your read the preceeding with incredulity, shocked and yeah-sure, utter disbelief; then you have no ethics, and are merely a purely opportunistic individual = " Were I number one anywhere, but had less time worked than 800-900 or so of another outfit that was to be combined; I'd not be whining about being placed below them..."

"If your read the preceeding with incredulity, shocked and yeah-sure, utter disbelief"

Why would we Michael? We've learned to expect this type of pompous dribble from you and you never disappoint!

 

[Claxon]

If she dismisses Addington II it can only be on ripeness. It HAS to be ripe at some point...everyone but USAPA agrees that time is now. So no, if she dismisses, AOL will file suit after every single development until we find ripeness. USAPA can't hide forever. If we have to play whack a mole until USCABA is decertified so be it.

PI Brat, found the angry west f/o you encountered in ATL. These subject types used to be called sore loser's.

 

[Claxon]

When you have pilots that think they are real attorney's clerking for the west law firm, you get the following hopeless garbage legal briefs filed by the Harper, Jacob groupies today.

"V. Conclusion

Neither Airways nor USAPA offers a valid reason for this Court to withhold injunctive relief. The West Pilots respectfully ask the Court to either grant their motion for a preliminary injunction with a nominal security bond or to enter final judgment and issue an injunction that does not require a bond. A proposed form of order for the
injunction is separately filed.

Dated this 3rd day of May, 2013.
POLSINELLI PC
/s/ Andrew S. Jacob
By _________________"


The proposed order offered and written by america west pilot law clerks. Pilot law clerks, nice amateur attempt at legal proceedings.

Sad, watching the fish flop on shore out of water.