April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[traderjake]

The UCC is moving to intervene in Addington, and Judge Lane, American and the UCC all expressed their desire to have this issue resolved in the Arizona federal district court before American emerges from bankruptcy.

 

[Metroyet]

Always knew KEVIN HORNER as metro, playing both sides for his own personal gain, what an opportunist!

I have no idea who Kevin Horner is. I don't get your obsession with him either.

 

[snapthis]

Again? Ok Cinderella; so when's the party already!? 🙂

Greeter and I have a bet on who's buying lunch at Azteca. Join us and we'll have a margarita bet. 🙂

 

[Walmartgreeter]

I see the tired rollout of "what the UCC wants" logic in regards to our seniority issues. Remember, they already have a solution in place, one ratified by AMR, APA, UCC, US Airways, and USAPA (including 98% of the voting West Class pilots.) That would be the MOU and its associated M/B timeline.

If any of the parties are unhappy with the agreement, they can attempt (like Harper threatened) to stop or slow down AMR's exit from BK and the associated merger with US Airways. But they won't. Sabers might be rattled, but even Parker washed his hands of our entire seniority affair. Its fixed, it’s over. Following the POR, at the appropriate time USAPA will present a DOH list with conditions and restrictions for all US Airways pilots to the APA, and maybe to the arbitrators.

As to APA's take on the matter, they are rookies just like the West Class. Neither has ever been through an actual merger of seniority lists. I have to laugh a little as APA attempts to comment on our affair while ignoring the elephant in the cockpit..the closing of the STL base and what will probably be a successful DFR involving both APA and, yes, even Parker. Seems Parker does EXACTLY what he wants to do when he needs to. I personally think he stepped in it with the TWA guys here..but like APA commenting on our affair, I guess I should also mind my own business (like I have not heard THAT before!)

This merger is going to happen, and when it does the problems of NIC and LOA 96 will be moot. All courts want to do is get cases over or off their table..they have enough to deal with. Silver will take the easy way out, and I predict no trial. She can easily point to the West vote and (using case law provided to her by USAPA) simply let this affair simply go away in September.

And it will go away.

Greeter

 

[Walmartgreeter]

For all you idiots that voted for the MOU.........US Airways, American apply to transfer all international routes to American after the merger...

It's worse than that. We will soon also be giving up code share and COC. These pesky transactions seem to happen in most every merger of public airline companies. Go figure. And so nice of you to call 75% of your fellow voting pilots idiots. Yikes.

Greeter

 

[prechilill]

"An impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result. Discarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground."

 

[prechilill]

"The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society." -- Thomas Jefferson

 

[prechilill]

“The tyranny of the minority is infinitely more odious and intolerable and more to be feared than that of the majority.”
William McKinley (1843-1901)
U.S. Congressman and 25th President of the United States

 

[Zone5]

The UCC is moving to intervene in Addington, and Judge Lane, American and the UCC all expressed their desire to have this issue resolved in the Arizona federal district court before American emerges from bankruptcy.

USAPA Litigation: The ongoing seniority dispute between a group of former America West pilots and USAPA continues. In Addington v. USAPA, Case No.: 2:13-CV-00471-PGR (D. Arizona), the plaintiffs filed for a preliminary injunction on March 26, 2013 in an attempt to ensure that the 2007 Nicolau award is the official position of USAPA in any seniority integration with APA. USAPA’s Constitution requires a pure date of hire position.

I think the "issue", a preliminary injunction requiring the use of the NIC going forward in the new MOU merger process, will indeed be "settled", perhaps prior to the POR, perhaps not. By "settled" I think the injunction will be tossed and the NIC will be, once again deemed "not required" going forward in the new ratified MOU process. The sooner Judge Silver rules, the better!


seajay

 

[end_of_alpa]

"The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society." -- Thomas Jefferson

"But what I think is going to work pretty well is a structure that says, “yes, date of hire, but, one, no one can come off furlough and replace an active employee” and “furthermore, no one can move into a base unless there is a vacancy. They can only see themselves displaced because there was an opening somewhere. I wish we could get there and see what's its like because I just don't think it's going to be as bad as everybody thinks.” Doug Parker CEO, US Airways company webcast for Pilots dated 7/20/06.

 

[prechilill]

“The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather that of the party...that succeeds, by force or fraud.”
Lord Acton (1834-1902)

 

[snapthis]

Appointment reminder:

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA
Don Addington, et al., Plaintiffs,
) No. CV-13-00471-PHX-ROS
) ORDER vs. )
US Airline Pilots Association, et al., )
Defendants. ) )
Plaintiffs filed this suit in early March and served Defendant US Airline Pilots Association (“USAPA&rdquo😉 one week later. (Doc. 18-1). On March 25, 2013, Plaintiffs moved to certify a class. (Doc. 11). And on March 26, 2013, Plaintiffs moved for a preliminary injunction. (Doc. 13). USAPA has requested the Court defer briefing on Plaintiffs’ motions until the Court rules on USAPA’s motion to dismiss, which will not be filed until April 22, 2013. Given that Plaintiffs are requesting a preliminary injunction, the Court cannot accommodate USAPA’s request for such a delay. Therefore, the Court will set expedited briefing schedules such that it can rule on the request for a preliminary injunction, as well as the motions to dismiss, in the very near future. The briefing on the motion to certify a class, however, can await the Court’s rulings on the other matters.Finally, the Court notes that Plaintiffs have already accused USAPA of operating in bad faith. (Doc. 19). Having handled the previous litigation, the Court is well-aware of the importance of the issues in this case and the unfortunate level of antagonism between the parties. That antagonism, however, will not be permitted to spillover into this litigation. Going forward, the parties must make sincere efforts to reach agreement where possible and to accommodate reasonable requests by the opposing party.

Accordingly,
IT IS ORDERED no later than April 26, 2013 Defendants shall file their responses to the motion for preliminary injunction. No later than May 3, 2013 Plaintiffs shall file their reply.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED no later than May 3, 2013 Plaintiffs shall file their response to the motion to dismiss filed by USAPA. No later than May 9, 2013 USAPA shall file their reply.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED no later than April 26, 2013 Plaintiffs shall file their response to US Airways’ motion to dismiss. No later than May 3, 2013 US Airways shall file its reply.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED a preliminary injunction hearing is set for May 14, 2013 at 10:00 a.m. No later than May 10, 2013 the parties shall file a joint status report containing a proposed schedule for that hearing. The status report should include the identity of any proposed witnesses as well as the scope of such witnesses’ testimony.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Set Briefing Schedule (Doc. 32) is GRANTED IN PART and DENIED IN PART.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Strike (Doc. 36) is DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the Motion to Exceed Page Limits (Doc. 42) is DENIED.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED the briefing on the Motion to Certify Class is stayed pending further order of the Court.
DATED this 17th day of April, 2013.

 

[cleardirect]

"But what I think is going to work pretty well is a structure that says, "yes, date of hire, but, one, no one can come off furlough and replace an active employee" and "furthermore, no one can move into a base unless there is a vacancy. They can only see themselves displaced because there was an opening somewhere. I wish we could get there and see what's its like because I just don't think it's going to be as bad as everybody thinks." Doug Parker CEO, US Airways company webcast for Pilots dated 7/20/06.

Doug Parker, Bruce Lakefield SIGNED joint labor statement 2005.
What holds more weight a propaganda meeting or a signed statement from BOTH CEO's?
You will notice where they stated that a DOH method was unfair and that a ratioed list was desirable.



Although the seniority integration process will be handled by your union representatives, we have
every expectation that our unions will honor certain obviously fair and equitable protocols as they
implement their merger policies or Allegheny Mohawk provisions. Specifically, we would expect that no
employee who already had been furloughed prior to the merger would be permitted to bump an active
employee out of a job. Likewise, we expect our unions will recognize a solution that simply “staples” all
employees of one airline to the bottom of the other’s seniority list as unacceptable and unconscionable.
To that end, because of seniority differences in some groups, straight seniority integration could have an
effect similar to that of stapling employees to the bottom of a seniority list, an outcome that is inconsistent with a fair and equitable protocol. Therefore, some type of proportional integration would seem reasonable. Given our experience working with your union representatives, we do not anticipate they would advocate an integrated seniority list that violates the basic tenets of fairness and equity, and we encourage them to help ease any uncertainty among their members as soon as possible by confirming
their intention to work toward seniority integration using these basic principles.

Lastly, although it is extremely important to go through the proper process of integrating seniority
lists, dragging seniority integration out for an unnecessarily long period of time is not in anyone’s best
interest. It is distracting to employees, and to customers who contemplate flying with the new US
Airways. A thoughtful, deliberate but timely resolution will help everyone move forward with greater
certainty, even if expectations are not always met.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Yes. We know.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Doug Parker, Bruce Lakefield SIGNED joint labor statement 2005.
What holds more weight a propaganda meeting or a signed statement from BOTH CEO's?
You will notice where they stated that a DOH method was unfair and that a ratioed list was desirable.



Although the seniority integration process will be handled by your union representatives, we have
every expectation that our unions will honor certain obviously fair and equitable protocols as they
implement their merger policies or Allegheny Mohawk provisions. Specifically, we would expect that no
employee who already had been furloughed prior to the merger would be permitted to bump an active
employee out of a job. Likewise, we expect our unions will recognize a solution that simply “staples” all
employees of one airline to the bottom of the other’s seniority list as unacceptable and unconscionable.
To that end, because of seniority differences in some groups, straight seniority integration could have an
effect similar to that of stapling employees to the bottom of a seniority list, an outcome that is inconsistent with a fair and equitable protocol. Therefore, some type of proportional integration would seem reasonable. Given our experience working with your union representatives, we do not anticipate they would advocate an integrated seniority list that violates the basic tenets of fairness and equity, and we encourage them to help ease any uncertainty among their members as soon as possible by confirming
their intention to work toward seniority integration using these basic principles.

Lastly, although it is extremely important to go through the proper process of integrating seniority
lists, dragging seniority integration out for an unnecessarily long period of time is not in anyone’s best
interest. It is distracting to employees, and to customers who contemplate flying with the new US
Airways. A thoughtful, deliberate but timely resolution will help everyone move forward with greater
certainty, even if expectations are not always met.

A video is worth a lot more than that letter. If and when Parker is a witness then he'll be confronted with both and I know he'll stick with the video.