Are Unions a good thing?
- Thread starter StuckHere
- Start date
exB717Flyer
Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2002
- Messages
- 1,106
- Reaction score
- 599
There's a lot of general pro/con union arguments that can be made but specifically for the pilots there's a reason why almost all are unionized: safety of the flying public. Even at JetBlue, the largest currently non-union carrier, the workrules they abide by came about from union carriers.
nostradamus
Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2004
- Messages
- 2,038
- Reaction score
- 0
Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will.
Frederick Douglas, 1857
BeenThereDoneThat
Veteran
Our(A&P mechanics) started off as nonunionized. We had to purchase stock as a condidion of employment, had stock options, had profit sharing, starting pay was the lowest in the industry, but the airline was NEW and things were going to get better. We did our heavy checks in house on 737-200/300, -8, 757, and A320 aircraft. Our CEO told us that he wanted us to be the higest paid in the industry. Then we adopted "work rules" nothing like a unionized contract for sure, but it set some guide lines. As mechanics, the majority did not feel the need for a union. Morale was always high.
We had many marketing campaigns and pep rallies. We entered bankruptcy, took pay cuts, lost our stock and stock options. Then the CEO was voted out, the next CEO was voted out and replaced. The company was making a profit(at last) and the new CEO decided that it would "save" millions to outsource the heavy checks and fire half of the mechanics and other personnel. In one night, the hangar went from a active place where friends and coworkers got the job done, to a virtual graveyard. There was no morale! It has never been the same.
We voted for UNION representation! At least it afforded some protection from what we had experienced. There is safety in numbers and that is what unions provide.
All of this is just my opinion and I would never work at an airline that did not have union representation.
We had a Union at the big U and everything you stated here happened to us regardless the only difference was the IAM got paid to let it happen and even the union bosses got pay increases while thousands hit the streets. Unions in Action. You can’t reason with the union lovers, but the evidence is in and unions are out, no longer part of the equation. What it takes is self help measures, not some bulging red eyed union preaching fanatic spewing his venom of lies deceit and whatever it takes to get your hard earned money. Acting upon your own God given talents is the better bet and safer path. Throwing your money at unions is like drug addiction with the same dire results. Follow the union officials examples and take care of SELF first and foremost.
BeenThereDoneThat
Veteran
Just for the record: I am and never have been a lover of UNIONS. It irks me to no end that I have to pay someone to say what I am very capable of communicating. As an individual no one listens! There is a lot to be said for numerical superiority. I will support and participate in my union activities, yet I am far from being a "red eyed union preaching fanatic" and I know that you were making a generalization. IMHO there is no way that unions are on their way out. To many good people are getting shafted without them. Conversely many unions are shafting the people they represent as you stated. You and I represent the reasons for and against union representation and for the same reason. We got :mf_boff: royaly. Here's to better days ahead!
yep, and im not the only one .. 😛
Racial injustice is not the current problem. The problem is unions that have zero power and heading into the negative zone in today’s world for a myriad of reasons all of which are making them totally obsolete. It doesn't require high intelligence to see these FACTS. Everyone runs from them and many unions like the IAM REQUIRE employees to pay dues whether they want to belong or not, which is more in line with what Douglas was about, injustice of any color.
When one has worked an entire a lifetime only to loss their pension and benefits and at the same time paying unions to tell you, sorry that’s life, then please by God, please explain the sanity in belonging to a union and paying them your hard earned money for those sorry results. Please be rational and not emotional. If you can make a good argument then you should run for president of the USA because you are that good as a spin doctor.
I am not anti union, I am just anti stupid.
It's funny, I have personally heard management personnel in this company state "Unions exist because management fails", yet they continue to treat the employees as a liability...thus making employees want a union to force management to treat them better. DP had his chance to make a better "partnership" environment, but he blew it. The unions are starting to get restless.
IMHO unions are both good and bad, it's just a matter of trying to decide who is the greater evil...the company or the union. And that is a choice each person must make.
nostradamus
Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2004
- Messages
- 2,038
- Reaction score
- 0
You forgot to include the full quote, it as follows;
Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand; it never has and it never will.
Frederick Douglas, 1857
"It doesn't require high intelligence to see these FACTS."
"I am anti stupid"
smorzando, 2006
smorzando
Your quotes show a need to feel superior to others, a bad trait.
Do you still pay taxes when things do not go your way in this country?
Wrong, the Railway Labor Act and the Supreme Court states you have to pay for what is germane to the negotiation and enforcement of the CBA.
They do not pay dues, they pay an agency fee.
No one under a CBA with a Union Security Clause gets a free ride.
nostradamus
You don't know me and never will. If you want to defend insanity, knock yourself out. Unions are a joke. To obtain a real job in today’s world sometimes past union membership is actually a liability, fact!
You can try and slam and insult me all day long, it doesn't matter, you don't matter and most of the morons paying union dues don't matter and that is a FACT by virtue of the way they are treated, and just accept it. Union members today are treated as second rate individuals needing something other them themselves to make it. Moron is not even a strong enough term for people who really believe a union is the answer to their problems, it's a sad sorry joke and it shows just how much self worth they really have.
From a IAM Site: “The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers is committed to ensuring civil and human rights not only for all IAMAW members, but also for all minorities throughout our nation and the world“.
Is this why everyone must pay them, is it working as good as the concessions they negotiated for you? Not to worry, they will assure your rights stay intact even if your contract and pensions didn‘t.
It’s joke and yet people defend unions and even hand over their hard earned money to them 😀 Might as well laugh otherwise you would cry.
As for you nostradamus: You have much in common with the French. You also have your head in the stars, the name is fitting. Have a Nice Life, and pay lots of dues during it, you’re the perfect union member robot.
You don't know me and never will. If you want to defend insanity, knock yourself out. Unions are a joke. To obtain a real job in today’s world sometimes past union membership is actually a liability, fact!
You can try and slam and insult me all day long, it doesn't matter, you don't matter and most of the morons paying union dues don't matter and that is a FACT by virtue of the way they are treated, and just accept it. Union members today are treated as second rate individuals needing something other them themselves to make it. Moron is not even a strong enough term for people who really believe a union is the answer to their problems, it's a sad sorry joke and it shows just how much self worth they really have.
From a IAM Site: “The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers is committed to ensuring civil and human rights not only for all IAMAW members, but also for all minorities throughout our nation and the world“.
Is this why everyone must pay them, is it working as good as the concessions they negotiated for you? Not to worry, they will assure your rights stay intact even if your contract and pensions didn‘t.
It’s joke and yet people defend unions and even hand over their hard earned money to them 😀 Might as well laugh otherwise you would cry.
As for you nostradamus: You have much in common with the French. You also have your head in the stars, the name is fitting. Have a Nice Life, and pay lots of dues during it, you’re the perfect union member robot.
nostradamus
Veteran
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2004
- Messages
- 2,038
- Reaction score
- 0
"I am not anti union." Please read your own posts to clarify this.
"Please be rational and not emotional." You set the bar.
"As for you nostradamus: You have much in common with the French." Are you trying to say you are superior to French people?
