Why Aren't All Airline Unions Meeting Now?

UseYourHead said:
This is why falling on our sword (not taking consessions so that we do not "lower the bar) is a farce,

All of the other airlines are looking at what US Airways has...a dominant east coast position, and they are loving the idea that we go away making an opportunity for increeased flying at their airline.

And of course, no jobs for us!
OTOH, a viable US Airways is trouble for them (legacy of LCC), and we can do it...we have the real estate, equipment, and emplyees...and a chance for dynamic leadership now and in the future.

Lets get on with it already!
[post="194283"][/post]​


Four years ago I wrote a letter to John Sweeny calling upon the AFL-CIO to encourage all the unions that represent airline workers to combine all the Air Transport Divisions into one union. I got an immediate reply from Sweeneys office. They liked the idea-BUT, it was not within the scope of the AFL-CIO to encourage it, the leaders of those unions had to go to the AFL-CIO with it. (In that letter I warned that the present structure was deeply flawed and at the next economic downturn Airline workers would be very vulnerable. I had no idea that it would be as bad as it turned out to be.)

So I wrote to Sonny Hall (TWU), Tom Buffenbarger (IAM) and James Hoffa (IBT). Needless to say they were not in favor of it. Thats because they knew that it would simply result in a battle between the three unions for the dues.

I was not detered. At every opportunity I pushed this idea. Talking to any airline worker I came into contact with. Even meeting face to face with Sonny Hall in May of 2003. I was the Treasurer of TWU Local 562 and after our industry leading concessionary contract I statred calling for the removal of the appointed TWU officers that put those concessions in place. The TWU then used my writings calling for all the airline unions to merge as evidence of dual unionism. In their decision they said " Brother Owens could only have been referring to AMFA since there is no other union presently "consisting of all airline workers."

Unfortunately todays unions are predominantly business unions. Even one person from the AFL-CIO told me that if you ever want to see such a thing happen you will have to leave the TWU, IAM and IBT, form a new union, when you have completly pushed those unions out of the industry then go back into the AFL-CIO.

What you are asking for will never happen, these unions see the current difficulties as an opportunity to pick up more of the labor market. They could care less about our suffering. As they negotiate concessions for us they give themselves raises then complain about how the executives have not shown any shared sacrifice.

Early in 2003 when the papers were saying that a Judge might abrogate UALs contracts I sent out an E-Mail saying that "When the first contract is voided we should all walk out". Jim Little, appointed head of the TWU-ATD sent me an E-mail demanding that I retract the statement, I refused, he claimed I was endangering the TWU membership and that we should sit back and let the courts do their thing. I disagreed. I was more than willing to take a stand, so would most other airline workers with half a brain because we knew that what was happening over at USAIR and UAL would eventually affect us at AA. We knew that once they used the threats of BK and abrogation of contracts that it would be a free for all against the workers where our unions, in a bid to be the union at the surviving airline, just sat there licking their chaps in the hope that the IAM would take a stand. When that did not happen the TWU went and gave the company everything they wanted, lowering the bar way below what USAIR or UAL agreed to under the threat of complete contract abrogation.

If you want change then go for either AMFA or the AGW. The guys at the Internationals pulling down six figures with secure benifits and pensions are not going to do anything to help us.
 
UseYourHead said:
GREED,

The employees at all of the other airlines would love to see another airline fail to enhance the opporotunity at the airline they work for.

That is why there is not national seniority lists....
[post="194280"][/post]​

True ( with reagrds to no national seniority list)Would you have liked to have seen EAL pilots coming into US with their EAL seniority in the early 1990s? Along with pilots from PA and Braniff with their seniority?
 
aafsc said:
True. But would you have liked to have seen EAL pilots coming into US with their EAL seniority in the early 1990s? Along with pilots from PA and Braniff with their seniority?
[post="201442"][/post]​


Well the alternative has been worse. The 25% paycut we recently took was on top of a twenty year decline in real wages that leaves us earning around half of what we used to earn.

Industry seniority is the way to go. Havinf seniority tied to a particular company has been the airlines most effective tool at prying concessions from workers.
 
Bob Owens said:
Well the alternative has been worse. The 25% paycut we recently took was on top of a twenty year decline in real wages that leaves us earning around half of what we used to earn.

Industry seniority is the way to go. Havinf seniority tied to a particular company has been the airlines most effective tool at prying concessions from workers.
[post="201446"][/post]​

I agree with you and I believe there should have been national seniority lists. I bet Use Your Head benefitted from EAL's demise because US picked up a lot of EAL slots and routes. I edited my previous post to acknowledge national seniority lists. The problem has always been (especially among the pilots) that the formerly "successful" carriers' employees are against it and the dying carriers employees are for it. The problem is this should have been done at the very beginning. That way every one at every carrier could have finished their career. Is this done in Europe? I think it is even done in some industries in this country. If there had been just one union from the begining, I think we would have had it.
 
aafsc said:
I agree with you and I believe there should have been national seniority lists. I bet Use Your Head benefitted from EAL's demise because US picked up a lot of EAL slots and routes. I edited my previous post to acknowledge national seniority lists. The problem has always been (especially among the pilots) that the formerly "successful" carriers' employees are against it and the dying carriers employees are for it. The problem is this should have been done at the very beginning. That way every one at every carrier could have finished their career. Is this done in Europe? I think it is even done in some industries in this country. If there had been just one union from the begining, I think we would have had it.
[post="201456"][/post]​

I dont know how its done in Europe but workers in Europe, even those who are not in unions usually enjoy more job protection than American workers do-thanks to the fact that Europeans are tolerant of Socialism. Most of the trades have Union seniority that they carry from job to job. Thats why if one company tries to get concessions under the threat of BK they just say go ahead and file, the answer is NO.

There is only one avenue for you to pursue this-the AGW. Trust me, I tried. Unfortunately the TWU, IAM and IBT look at you as "their" member, you belong to them, not the other way around so the priority of these unions is not whats good for you but rather what is good for the people at the top of the institution.
 
UseYourHead said:
This is why falling on our sword (not taking consessions so that we do not "lower the bar) is a farce,

All of the other airlines are looking at what US Airways has...a dominant east coast position, and they are loving the idea that we go away making an opportunity for increeased flying at their airline.

And of course, no jobs for us!
OTOH, a viable US Airways is trouble for them (legacy of LCC), and we can do it...we have the real estate, equipment, and emplyees...and a chance for dynamic leadership now and in the future.

Lets get on with it already!
[post="194283"][/post]​

I don't think another legacy wants to take U's place on the East coast. Do you think that they want to go head to head with Southwest. If U fails, Southwest and the other LLCs will take over the flying.
 
aafsc said:
I don't think another legacy wants to take U's place on the East coast. Do you think that they want to go head to head with Southwest. If U fails, Southwest and the other LLCs will take over the flying.
[post="201459"][/post]​

Like AMR's TWU represented Eagle?


EAgle is AMR and the TWUs "in house" LCC. They (AMR and the TWU) would love to see USAIR dissapear.
 
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