Article 32

[Garfield1966]

Lately, I've seen too many f/a's are verbally and emotionally abusive(includes racism. discrimination and harassment) to other f/a's and some of them, in my opinion, needed to be reported, because it was THAT BAD. I will never report a f/a to the management, but because they know that, so they keep being abusive to others and think that they can walk on water. That's because of people like that, we need article 32, so we can protect ourselves by being abused at work. No one deserves to be treated like that.

[post="275377"][/post]​

If you are not going to report a FA then Rule 32 is worthless. If complaints against an individual are not tracked then Rule 32 is worthless. You say there were some who needed to be reported and yet you do not. That individual will go on hurting other, offending passengers.... etc and yet you do nothing. Seems to me that you are becoming part of the problem not the solution. A do agree with Ken though. Talk to the person first see what they have to say. I have had terms used in front of me that are offensive but the person had no idea what they meant. I explained it to them, they apologized and we moved on. In other cases, they just dismissed me with out a second thought and I reported them.

If you feel that no one deserves to be treated like that, then you damn well better start doing something about it.

 

[eolesen]

If you are not going to report a FA then Rule 32 is worthless. If complaints against an individual are not tracked then Rule 32 is worthless.

[post="275666"][/post]​

Oh, trust me, complaints are definitely tracked....

 

[nbmcguire]

[You all tattle on each other more than any other company I've ever encountered. Have you ever thought that a paradigm change is in order? Company numbers for turning in another person for anything from a perceived injustice to God only knows what. Rule 32 should ONLY be used in the most severe and dangerous situations..Professional standards should be the avenue for all the Union folks and if there is a mangt.-union problem, same thing..Pro-Stan. If your Unions aren't doing their job by either training Pro Stan reps or making this service known and available, then DEMAND it..That is why you pay dues.



quote=Former ModerAAtor,Jun 6 2005, 12:17 PM]
Oh, trust me, complaints are definitely tracked....

[post="275683"][/post]​

[/quote]

 

[local 12 proud]

What do you expect from a crybaby compAAny and its lap dog union?

 

[Garfield1966]

Oh, trust me, complaints are definitely tracked....

[post="275683"][/post]​

FM,
My point was that if no one files a complaint then there is nothing to track. I fulling understand and expect that once the complaints are on record that they will be tracked.

 

[flydcoop]

You are right about this one, N.

One of my former crash-padder's (who is on a MAJOR IOD) is forced to fly here to get a second opinion on a surgery. She lives in MASTERBASE. They don't have company Doctors there? LOL, but not for her. She's at 50% mobility...rotator cuff.

Remember, DFW has ALL the answers...LOL!

AA will not treat us like adults (I know when my ears are blocked) and likewise I will not act like an adult.

To be truthful, the sick-list is worked, it depends on how good your DR is at filling out FMLA paperwork which AA DID push on us.

I was denied in DEC and I was sick-as-a-dog.

AA will deny you on a crossed-t and dotted-I these days.

They created their own FMLA drAAma!

Coop

SLT

p.s. I have friends who have been denied FMLA for HIV! Is there a cure for this yet?

Are you regretting retiring yet?

I'm not sure I'll make it through this summer...LOL!

quote=nbmcg01,Jun 5 2005, 02:22 AM]
Has anyone ever thought of acting or being treated like an adult? There are many reasons that a f/a could not work but would be able to non-rev..broken bone, sprained whatever, obviously ear block, no..I think it is interesting that AA FORCES f/as on industrials to fly into STL(those who are based in STL), even if they live in other states to see Company paid Drs. People with serious back and neck injuries have been required to comply or lose their benefits. Things that make you go hummmmmmmmmm

[post="275445"][/post]​

[/quote]

 

[Garfield1966]

The audacity of some people never ceases to amaze me. Someone on this board who has given me grief about my stance on the sick policy is part of the problem. They have been sick for Christmass / New Years every single year since they started with AA. Yea yea I know. They just might have really bad luck and just happen to really be sick. I believe that just about as much as the head lines on the entertainment rags at the news stand. You know who you are and I know who you are so do us all a favor and just crawl back under that rock you came out from under because that pigeon done flew the coop and it is not coming back.

 

[flydcoop]

[ because that pigeon done flew the coop and it is not coming back.

[post="276376"][/post]​

[/quote]


I hope that was a poor choice of phrase there, Garfield, and not implied towards me.

If it is implied towards me, I can account for my whereabouts and circumstances almost every X-Mas and New Year's.

Coop

SLT

 

[operaations]

[ because that pigeon done flew the coop and it is not coming back.

[post="276376"][/post]​

I hope that was a poor choice of phrase there, Garfield, and not implied towards me.

If it is implied towards me, I can account for my whereabouts and circumstances almost every X-Mas and New Year's.

Coop

SLT

[post="276420"][/post]​

[/quote]
someone sounds defensive

 

[nbmcguire]

Oh, this seems like the perfect time for a typical AA Art. 32 complaint..lol No, Coop, I do not regret retiring for one second. AA has a different "corporate culture" and I don't think I would have ever wanted to become meshed into the AA "way". I take great pride in having been both PanAm and TWA during their "glorious past". And I certainly hope "Garfield" isn't our old Garfield. We had the BEST schedulers. (even if we didn't always agree..lol) Roy, Vic, Terry, Mike, Flo and many others always looked for ways to not only protect the operation but work WITH the f/as. They were smart enough to know that in this day and age, most people fly certain flights and schedules for a reason. In STL (TWA), our turns were the most senior flts. For the commuters, late starts, early finishes. Our schedulers tried to work within the needs of the crew WHILE maintaining the integrity of the operation. It made sense that you would try not to reassign someone who flys turns to a 4 day trip...Chances are they would call off. We had different balancing rules and never had to put up with the trip extensions and reassignments like you all...but that was just our "inferior" CBA. Also, the smaller operation led to more personal exchanges with our schedulers. Our CBA would have not allowed the use of FSMs to keep from recalling f/as. Pay assignments to keep qualifications current, yes. And in all of my years of Union work, I only delt with one or two f/a write-ups..and they were "set-ups" during a Union raid. Like I said, different culture...I hope, for your sake, you are wrong about this summer.

 

[Dr. Freud]

If you are not going to report a FA then Rule 32 is worthless. If complaints against an individual are not tracked then Rule 32 is worthless. You say there were some who needed to be reported and yet you do not. That individual will go on hurting other, offending passengers.... etc and yet you do nothing. Seems to me that you are becoming part of the problem not the solution. A do agree with Ken though. Talk to the person first see what they have to say. I have had terms used in front of me that are offensive but the person had no idea what they meant. I explained it to them, they apologized and we moved on. In other cases, they just dismissed me with out a second thought and I reported them.

If you feel that no one deserves to be treated like that, then you damn well better start doing something about it.

[post="275666"][/post]​

What I see here is a company jumping on the politically correct band wagon in order to apease a vocal few spoiled cry babies and whiners.
This Hate Related Behavior is real Orwellian Thought Police stuff. Besides, if someone attacks another person verbally or physically, is it out of LOVE? Isn't hate already implied in the act? It seems to me like it is just another way to give special treatment to a some sort of Rainbow hued agenda. If you are going to flaunt your aberrant behavior,expect to be ridiculed. Go ahead, be a rat and run to the company to solve your problems. :down:

 

[Ed Norton]

The audacity of some people never ceases to amaze me. Someone on this board who has given me grief about my stance on the sick policy is part of the problem. They have been sick for Christmass / New Years every single year since they started with AA. Yea yea I know. They just might have really bad luck and just happen to really be sick. I believe that just about as much as the head lines on the entertainment rags at the news stand. You know who you are and I know who you are so do us all a favor and just crawl back under that rock you came out from under because that pigeon done flew the coop and it is not coming back.

[post="276376"][/post]​

Some company shill you are! Is not sick leave part of your contract? If we are given 12 sick days per year....correction, our illustrious company union gave that away also...If we are given five sick days per year as part of our negotiated contract, why are we not allowed to take them when as we see fit? We are adults and should be accountable for our own actions . If I use up all my sick leave to go play golf and when I'm sick I have no time left, then I'm S.O.L. I don't get paid. I should only be disciplined if I have exceeded my sick day bank.
How silly of me! I forgot that union contracts are only for the benefit the company and they may interpret them as they please.

 

[Garfield1966]

What I see here is a company jumping on the politically correct band wagon in order to apease a vocal few spoiled cry babies and whiners.
This Hate Related Behavior is real Orwellian Thought Police stuff. Besides, if someone attacks another person verbally or physically, is it out of LOVE? Isn't hate already implied in the act? It seems to me like it is just another way to give special treatment to a some sort of Rainbow hued agenda. If you are going to flaunt your aberrant behavior,expect to be ridiculed. Go ahead, be a rat and run to the company to solve your problems. :down:

[post="276567"][/post]​

I was watching Denis Miller one night and he was railing against the idea of hate crimes as well. He said that a distinction should not be drawn between a hate crime murder and a run of the mill murder. The should both be given the same sentence. I agree with that. I was thinking about this and something bugged me about it. I thought there is a place for hate crimes but I could not come up with a situation which could justify it to my own satisfaction.

A few week later, I was watching the new and they showed a Jewish temple that had been vandalized by having Swastikas painted on it and other hate related things. That to me is what differentiates a hate crime for a "normal" crime. If a Jew were to wake up to their temple and see a heart with "Joe & Stacy for ever" on it, do you think they would have been as offended? Do you think the intent would have been the same. Obviously not.

In my opinion, a hate crime is something very specific. But having said that, the most innocuous thing could cause a great deal of pain. Putting a dunce cap in someone’s locker one would think is not. It might be mean, but it does not go against the core of an individual unless of course that person is mentally challenged, or perhaps a family member is.

Just as in real life where it not advisable to take the law in to ones own hands, but rather leave that up to law enforcement. If I see someone violating (in my opinion) Rule 32, yes I will be advising my nearest member of management. You say it's catering to a rainbow agenda. I say it's holding the bigots and hate peddlers accountable for their actions.

“Flaunting aberrant behaviorâ€￾. Can you explain that one to me? I have been with the company for close to 20 years and have yet to see someone “flaunt their aberrant behaviorâ€￾. Are we talking about someone coming to work in their leather and chain sex out fit? A “biker chickâ€￾ coming to work in full leathers and chaps with her a$$ hanging out? Assuming they do, I fail to see how this justifies ridicule. If they are in violation of the dress code or making inappropriate remarks to passengers, then that can and should be dealt with on a company level. If you choose to act like a 5 year old to “ridiculeâ€￾ someone then you are the one who needs help in my opinion.

 

[Garfield1966]

Some company shill you are! Is not sick leave part of your contract? If we are given 12 sick days per year....correction, our illustrious company union gave that away also...If we are given five sick days per year as part of our negotiated contract, why are we not allowed to take them when as we see fit? We are adults and should be accountable for our own actions . If I use up all my sick leave to go play golf and when I'm sick I have no time left, then I'm S.O.L. I don't get paid. I should only be disciplined if I have exceeded my sick day bank.
How silly of me! I forgot that union contracts are only for the benefit the company and they may interpret them as they please.

[post="276569"][/post]​

I did a search in Jet Net for the sick policy that you agreed to when you hired on with AA. I hate to be the one to break it to you but golf is not listed as a valid reason to call in sick. You may not agree with it and I really don't care. When you run your own company you can make the rules. I know you will continue to cal in sick when you deem fit but please don't come on this board and try to say that the company has no right to tell you how to use a benefit that they provide. They make the rules. You are not allowed to takes them as you see fit because you do not make the rules. AA does and you agreed to them when you hired on. So at least be a man about it and admit that you are knowingly and willfully violating AA policy.

Here is the policy for you reading pleasure


Paid Sick Time Accrual Policy Change Effective May 1, 2003
Sick time accrued in 2003 will be credited to employees Sick Bank January 1, 2004.

American offers paid sick time for employees to use when you are too ill to come to work. Paid sick time is intended only for your illness – it should not be used for time off to care for relatives (unless otherwise specified by state law), voluntary medical procedures or routine visits to the doctor or dentist. Most employees earn up to 5 days of sick time per year, up to a maximum of 150 days.

Employees who are covered by a collective bargaining agreement should refer to their agreement for details.



I understand that this is not the union version but I would bet that golf is not covered under your sick policy either.

 

[Ed Norton]

I was watching Denis Miller one night and he was railing against the idea of hate crimes as well. He said that a distinction should not be drawn between a hate crime murder and a run of the mill murder. The should both be given the same sentence. I agree with that. I was thinking about this and something bugged me about it. I thought there is a place for hate crimes but I could not come up with a situation which could justify it to my own satisfaction.

A few week later, I was watching the new and they showed a Jewish temple that had been vandalized by having Swastikas painted on it and other hate related things. That to me is what differentiates a hate crime for a "normal" crime. If a Jew were to wake up to their temple and see a heart with "Joe & Stacy for ever" on it, do you think they would have been as offended? Do you think the intent would have been the same. Obviously not.

In my opinion, a hate crime is something very specific. But having said that, the most innocuous thing could cause a great deal of pain. Putting a dunce cap in someone’s locker one would think is not. It might be mean, but it does not go against the core of an individual unless of course that person is mentally challenged, or perhaps a family member is.

Just as in real life where it not advisable to take the law in to ones own hands, but rather leave that up to law enforcement. If I see someone violating (in my opinion) Rule 32, yes I will be advising my nearest member of management. You say it's catering to a rainbow agenda. I say it's holding the bigots and hate peddlers accountable for their actions.

“Flaunting aberrant behaviorâ€. Can you explain that one to me? I have been with the company for close to 20 years and have yet to see someone “flaunt their aberrant behaviorâ€. Are we talking about someone coming to work in their leather and chain sex out fit? A “biker chick†coming to work in full leathers and chaps with her a$$ hanging out? Assuming they do, I fail to see how this justifies ridicule. If they are in violation of the dress code or making inappropriate remarks to passengers, then that can and should be dealt with on a company level. If you choose to act like a 5 year old to “ridicule†someone then you are the one who needs help in my opinion.

[post="276581"][/post]​

That you allow the media to form your opinion speaks volumes of your thought process. It is not surprising that you toe the pAArty line.
Now, for the sake of argument lets change the Jewish Temple that you referrenced, to a Knights of Columbus Hall, a VFW Hall or the headquarters of the Christian Coalition. Would these attacks be classified as hate crimes? By the way, I am not trivializing the long suffering plight of my Jewish brethren in any way.
The whole concept of hate crime is ridiculous; it is nothing more than Orwellian Newspeak and it criminalizes thought. Are we to have the Thought Police enforce hate crime activity? Are we to become like Canada where a pastor can be arrested for reading passages from the Bible (New and old Testaments) which condemn homosexuality?
Bigotry has always been around and we have somehow survived as a nation for over 200 years without hate crime laws.

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
2 entries found for aberrant.
To select an entry, click on it.
aberrant[1,adjective]aberrant[2,noun]

Main Entry: 1ab·er·rant
Pronunciation: a-'ber-&nt, &-; 'a-b&-r&nt, -"ber-&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin aberrant-, aberrans, present participle of aberrare to go astray, from ab- + errare to wander, err
1 : straying from the right or normal way
2 : deviating from the usual or natural type : ATYPICAL
- ab·er·rance /-&n(t)s/ noun
- ab·er·ran·cy /-&n(t)-sE/ noun
- ab·er·rant·ly adverb

I will give you an example of flaunting aberrant behavior. I have an inlaw who decided one day that he was gay. You may argue that he did not chose this, that he was born that way. For argument sake I will agree. For just like adultery and fornication, homosexuality is a sin and we are all born sinners. Enough theology. Suddenly he was speaking with an exagerated lisp and walked a bit light on his feet. A year later, the lisp was gone and so was the walk. I just figured the newness of his gayness wore out and he was back to acting like himself.
I've lost count on how many male flight attendants I've encounterd that flaunted their aberrant behavior in the manner previosly described and yes, I can't help but chuckle. Like the time a coworker told me about a gay man he saw once. He as clad in leather pants and vest, no shirt and with a chain going from his pierced nipple to the vest. He was also carrying a Teddy Bear dressed exactly alike. Tell me that's not funny?! 😀