Article 4 Industry Comparable Pay rate

[737823]

Not what William O'Driscoll said, do you know who he is?

It was of no consequence to him since he hadn't worked his job at TWA in decades bad still enjoys living in Ireland off the backs of current IAM members.

Josh

 

[700UW]

I love how you all make it about me and not the topic at hand.
 
I have been a Shop Steward, Local Lodge Trustee, Local Lodge Recording Secretary, Award Winning Local Lodge Editor, Organizing Committee, Communications Committee, Trial Committee, District 142 Communicator, On the Mechanic and Related Negotiating Committee in 2005 and the Continental Airlines Flight Attendant Negotiating Committee, and many other things.
 
Have take all four leadership classes at Placid Harbor, and other specialized classes and training.

So attack and flame away, and what is your experience at US, AA, the IAM or TWU joshie the fraud.

 

[exs]

 
 
 
 







 
 
If AA and USAirways are a single carrier and there’s a single agreement covering AA and USAirways mechanics by September 2015 (and there is no reason there should not be) there will no longer be a USAirways rate and it wouldn’t be in the industry comparison or the computation of industry standard at all. The industry standard would be based only on the Delta and United rates. Those rates would presently call for pay of around 37.40 for an AMT, but the UAL contract is far beyond its amendable date and it’s highly likely that mechanic rates at both carriers will increase by September 2015.
 

 







 


 
"There is no reason there should not be", "Highly Likely", Man you sound just like someone at a TWU meeting.
Talking crap like always without any facts to back it up. I will give you a fact and I have this crap contract to back me up.
 
We will be getting paid more than $37.40 an hour with our Sep 2015 raise, so if the UAL negotiations drag out past that date and Delta doesn't 
give out a raise, which they might not giving the fact the TWU has dragged the industry on a downward spiral. That will be another disappointment to say
the least about this contract. Hopefully I am wrong.
 
Do you think "there should not be any reason" we don't get the prefunding match and is it "highly unlikely" we get the rest of Equity shares? 

 

[Bob Owens]

 
 
 
 







 
 
If AA and USAirways are a single carrier and there’s a single agreement covering AA and USAirways mechanics by September 2015 (and there is no reason there should not be) there will no longer be a USAirways rate and it wouldn’t be in the industry comparison or the computation of industry standard at all. The industry standard would be based only on the Delta and United rates. Those rates would presently call for pay of around 37.40 for an AMT, but the UAL contract is far beyond its amendable date and it’s highly likely that mechanic rates at both carriers will increase by September 2015.

 







 


Lot of speculation there. UAL has been in joint negotiations for three years. The USAIR pilots never settled on a joint deal and that's 9 years.
 
The "Reality" is there is no reason to believe that there will be a joint agreement in place by Sept 2015, 2016 or even 2017 unless you are saying we should continue to accept the worst deal in the industry in order to get a joint deal in place like the IAM did with the America West merger 9 years ago, the deal they are still under. Once Section six negotiations are done so is any opportunity to catch up to other carriers because the synergies of joint operations will in no way generate more savings than these super concessionary deals that are in place and TA'd.  So the company will be just fine with two separate bottom of the industry contracts, and as you pointed out, with the USAIR deal still in the mix it would keep our hourly rates, let alone everything else, way below the rest of the industry. If you disagree please tell me why you think that AA would be so desperate to get a joint agreement in place? Where is the big gain? Our total compensation is roughly 20% less than non-union Jet Blue and Delta, let alone non-union Fed Ex. 
 
 
If they vote yes they are approving a deal that gives mechanics at the biggest airline in the country that is making record profits bottom of the industry wages and they really wont have another opportunity at Section Six talks, which carry with them the leverage of self help, for three more years. 2017. In other words if it doesn't bring them up to industry standard its a concessionary deal despite 700 claim that it means a 10% increase, they are still 10% behind everyone else. So at least three more years at the very bottom of the industry.  By not coming to a joint agreement till after the Mid Term wage adjustment management locks us in with a much lower than average wage, along with less Vacation, Holidays, Sick, IOD, etc etc etc. So why would they offer anything substantial? Are you kidding me? Do you actually believe they are going to keep their word? look at the videos where Parker is already backing away from the "When we get as big as the other carriers then we can pay like the other carriers" promise.  Look at how they have been acting already, taking away Flex vacation, Inspectors off B-checks, screwing non-union out of their sick banks, etc.
 
Bottom line. By voting YES to a deal that doesn't even come close to UAL and Delta they give even more leverage to the company in Joint negotiations because now management could use that (the mid term wage adjustment) to try and pressure mechanics into accepting an even longer term bottom of the industry deal. Every other work group on the property is already near UAL and Delta so its no big deal. We are the only work group that lags our peers by double digit percentage points in compensation. That's why the mechanics must vote NO and go forward in the process and not settle for anything that doesn't give them parity with UAL or Delta. Most line stations are already short heads, so are most of the MRO's and there aren't many mechanics in the pipeline anymore so we are in a better position now to take on management than ever before. 

 

[Bob Owens]

AA forced the IAM at TW to give up the labor protection provisions or face chapter 7.
 
Explain this, how can you have an agreement BEFORE a purchase, that means there was no agreement.

Forced? The IAM puts its assets ahead of its members is a more accurate description. Get the monies due on the pension and the leased engines or enforce the members rights. They chose the money. 

 

[1AA]

OK Bob you can exhale now. Well written.

 

[700UW]

Forced? The IAM puts its assets ahead of its members is a more accurate description. Get the monies due on the pension and the leased engines or enforce the members rights. They chose the money.

That money was going to be gotten anyhow as those claims were secured.

 

[1AA]

I love how you all make it about me and not the topic at hand.
 
I have been a Shop Steward, Local Lodge Trustee, Local Lodge Recording Secretary, Award Winning Local Lodge Editor, Organizing Committee, Communications Committee, Trial Committee, District 142 Communicator, On the Mechanic and Related Negotiating Committee in 2005 and the Continental Airlines Flight Attendant Negotiating Committee, and many other things.
 
Have take all four leadership classes at Placid Harbor, and other specialized classes and training.
So attack and flame away, and what is your experience at US, AA, the IAM or TWU joshie the fraud.

That chest pounding is getting louder by each post. Pound away mister I did it all,
very entertaining in deed.

 

[700UW]

Sorry if the reality of the truth bothers you, if you attack me, I have the right to defend myself.
 
And you attack the poster when you cant refute what is posted nor debate with facts.

 

[1AA]

Who is attacking? We are toying with you and you keep getting sucked into it.
Play on this is entertaining. BTW were you involved in writing the Affordable Health Care Act as well?

 

[texasreb]

Lot of speculation there. UAL has been in joint negotiations for three years. The USAIR pilots never settled on a joint deal and that's 9 years.
 
The "Reality" is there is no reason to believe that there will be a joint agreement in place by Sept 2015, 2016 or even 2017 unless you are saying we should continue to accept the worst deal in the industry in order to get a joint deal in place like the IAM did with the America West merger 9 years ago, the deal they are still under. Once Section six negotiations are done so is any opportunity to catch up to other carriers because the synergies of joint operations will in no way generate more savings than these super concessionary deals that are in place and TA'd.  So the company will be just fine with two separate bottom of the industry contracts, and as you pointed out, with the USAIR deal still in the mix it would keep our hourly rates, let alone everything else, way below the rest of the industry. If you disagree please tell me why you think that AA would be so desperate to get a joint agreement in place? Where is the big gain? Our total compensation is roughly 20% less than non-union Jet Blue and Delta, let alone non-union Fed Ex. 
 
 
If they vote yes they are approving a deal that gives mechanics at the biggest airline in the country that is making record profits bottom of the industry wages and they really wont have another opportunity at Section Six talks, which carry with them the leverage of self help, for three more years. 2017. In other words if it doesn't bring them up to industry standard its a concessionary deal despite 700 claim that it means a 10% increase, they are still 10% behind everyone else. So at least three more years at the very bottom of the industry.  By not coming to a joint agreement till after the Mid Term wage adjustment management locks us in with a much lower than average wage, along with less Vacation, Holidays, Sick, IOD, etc etc etc. So why would they offer anything substantial? Are you kidding me? Do you actually believe they are going to keep their word? look at the videos where Parker is already backing away from the "When we get as big as the other carriers then we can pay like the other carriers" promise.  Look at how they have been acting already, taking away Flex vacation, Inspectors off B-checks, screwing non-union out of their sick banks, etc.
 
Bottom line. By voting YES to a deal that doesn't even come close to UAL and Delta they give even more leverage to the company in Joint negotiations because now management could use that (the mid term wage adjustment) to try and pressure mechanics into accepting an even longer term bottom of the industry deal. Every other work group on the property is already near UAL and Delta so its no big deal. We are the only work group that lags our peers by double digit percentage points in compensation. That's why the mechanics must vote NO and go forward in the process and not settle for anything that doesn't give them parity with UAL or Delta. Most line stations are already short heads, so are most of the MRO's and there aren't many mechanics in the pipeline anymore so we are in a better position now to take on management than ever before.

And Bob might I add that with United and Continental mechanics separated, the airline can hire at one entity and lay off at the other. This is happening with United layoffs and Continental hiring at New Jersy.

 

[texasreb]

And Bob might I add that with United and Continental mechanics separated, the airline can hire at one entity and lay off at the other. This is happening with United layoffs and Continental hiring at New Jersy.

Sorry, I forgot how to spell New Jersey.

 

[1AA]

And Bob might I add that with United and Continental mechanics separated, the airline can hire at one entity and lay off at the other. This is happening with United layoffs and Continental hiring at New Jersy.

And that is happening under the same union for both parties. Just think what may happen here at AA/USAir before it all comes full circle as one Airline.

 

[swamt]

OK Bob you can exhale now. Well written.

Yes it is.  I really hope the US guys vote this crap down.  Well written and very valid points for the future.   Since they will be using "average pay" for future nego why in the world would they bring in a contract that still leaves them at the bottom?  And the freakin IAM is pushing this?  Are they really selling this to the membership guys?  Sad to see from the side lines.  Time for change guys wake up and fire both the IAM and the TWU...  Vote no, please, for our industry and future contracts...

 

[swamt]

And that is happening under the same union for both parties. Just think what may happen here at AA/USAir before it all comes full circle as one Airline.

Another good point,  Think people, think...