Atheism

[xUT]

You still see this today in churches that insist jesus has a right to 10% of your income.

Show me! You guys kill me with your ignorance and broad assumptions. (P.S. Jesus is the New Testament)

 

[xUT]

Perhaps you should console research as to what those mean. By not having a chaplain no one is prohibited from practicing their faith. Having a chaplain paid for with tax payer money is government established religion. Using your interpretation would essentially nullify the 1st since it would be contradicting its self.

You have no right to make that determination.

 

[Ms Tree]

No I do not. The COTUS does.

 

[Seatacus]

Having a chaplain paid for with tax payer money is government established religion.

I don't believe that chaplains are there to establish religion but there to meet the needs of our service men and women. If they desire a chaplain what do you want them to do? Pay for it themselves?

 

[tech2101]

Show me! You guys kill me with your ignorance and broad assumptions. (P.S. Jesus is the New Testament)

I am far from a Biblical Scholar, however, I did learn this much:

Old Testament:

Malachi 3 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Deuteronomy 14:22 - Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

Proverbs 3:9 (NIV) - Honor the Lord with your wealth, with the firstfruits of all your crops.

New Testament:

Mark 12:41-44 - Jesus went over to the collection box in the Temple and sat and watched as the crowds dropped in their money. Many rich people put in large amounts. Then a poor widow came and dropped in two pennies. He called his disciples to him and said, "I assure you, this poor widow has given more than all the others have given. For they gave a tiny part of their surplus, but she, poor as she is, has given everything she has."

That last statement from the Bible sounds strikingly familiar to a speech I recently heard.

 

[Seatacus]

New Testament:

2 Corinthians 9:7 (New International Version)
7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

 

[Ms Tree]

I don't believe that chaplains are there to establish religion but there to meet the needs of our service men and women. If they desire a chaplain what do you want them to do? Pay for it themselves?

Actually yes. What is wrong with that? Hell, we make them buy comfort foods, magazines and all manner of other items if they are on a ship. As far as I am concerned, if they have to buy those necessities (which I think should be free) why not buy religious comfort? I fail to see why I should have to pay for it? I believe I recall you saying yo do not want to pay for someone elses abortion. Why should I have to pay for someones religious beliefs?

Let me ask you something. Do you think I would make a good Chaplin? My view on religion are quite clear. I suspect your answer is no. Then why would you accept a Muslim clerk giving you advice on Christianity? After all, for those who are not christian they are in all likelihood forced to accept religious advice from a Christian Chaplin. The Chaplains are supposedly versed in multiple faiths. How does that work? A true Christian believes in their faith and their faith alone do they not? Same with a a Jew, Muslim, Hindu or who ever else. So how exactly does that work. The Chaplin cannot really believe any of what they are saying that does not pertain to their faith so he is pretty much just going through the motions. How is that of any benefit to the service members? A trained philologist would be far more beneficial in my opinion.

Aside from that. A Chaplin is a religious official who is being compensated by the Fed to perform religious duties. How is that not a n act of government established religion?

 

[SparrowHawk]

A Chaplin is a religious official who is being compensated by the Fed to perform religious duties. How is that not a n act of government established religion?

That's the biggest horseshit argument I've ever heard.

Courts have ruled that chaplains in the military do not violate the establishment clause.

Define the word "Establishment". In this case it refers to a state sponsored religion. Primary example would be Iran a country run by the clergy. Iran's Government as constructed would be an open and shut case of a violation of our First Amendment.

Also bear in mind that a Government also must reflect the views of the governed. Thus the overthrow of the Shah of Iran.

There is no state sponsored religion in the US. We know this for a fact as you are still alive and free to speak your mind. Jehovah's Witness's, Mormons, Evangelical Christians all go door to door seeking to convert and the state neither encourages or frowns upon their activities.

With a 14.6 Trillion dollar debt I'm thinking the very last thing we as a nation should be worrying about is whether a Military Champlain is drawing a government paycheck and therefore somehow in violation of the Establishment cause.

 

[Ms Tree]

The fact that courts have said it does not violate the establishment clause does not mean that they do not. The courts said that separate was equal and we have since learned that was not the case.

I think there clearly is a state/nation established religion in this country and it is Christianity. Christian religious expression is all over the place in public and private form. The reference to Iran is not even close to being a valid comparison. While the US does have an established religion, it is for the most part tolerant of some other religions as long as they are close to the Judeo/Christian religions. If you are not, best keep your head down. Native and Wicca did not do to well in the earlier part of American life. Wicca, Satanist and other that are off the beaten path are not tolerated to well but we have not devolved to the Iranian model where those who do not believe in the national religion are persecuted (at least not openly or violently)

I am sorry you are not able to multi-task. I am able to worry about the debt, Congressional screw up, Presidential screw ups, keeping my pool clean and the fact that my taxes are paying a member of the clergy.

 

[SparrowHawk]

The fact that courts have said it does not violate the establishment clause does not mean that they do not. The courts said that separate was equal and we have since learned that was not the case.

Well thankfully we live in a country where the rule of law usually prevails.

 

[Ms Tree]

My point exactly. The courts seem to be just in front of the wave of public opinion. As organized religion dissipates, the decision will probably change.

 

[xUT]

I am far from a Biblical Scholar, however, I did learn this much:

That last statement from the Bible sounds strikingly familiar to a speech I recently heard.

This is what was said.

View PostDarkSnowyNight, on 20 August 2011 - 01:34 AM, said:
You still see this today in churches that insist jesus has a right to 10% of your income.

This is what I said.

Show me! You guys kill me with your ignorance and broad assumptions. (P.S. Jesus is the New Testament)

Your post does not prove what PostDarkSnowyNight posted as Jesus never said that.

A tithe is a personal choice between you and GOD.
Tithe doesn't have to go to a church, Jerry Falwell, or any religious organization.
I tithe/donate money to numerous organizations including my Church, Habitat for Humanity , Christian Children's Fund, Soldiers Angels, Homeless, etc...
It's my 'personal choice' as I do what I can, care less of what much of the Old Testament says.
But that's just me.
I also do not care what you or anyone else believes in as long as you do not try to inhibit my 1st Amendment rights to practice my religion.

My angst is when 'self imposed geniuses' declare that my belief is wrong.
Specially when they don't have a clue other than unsubstantiated claims.

B) xUT

 

[tech2101]

This is what was said.


This is what I said.


Your post does not prove what PostDarkSnowyNight posted as Jesus never said that.

A tithe is a personal choice between you and GOD.
Tithe doesn't have to go to a church, Jerry Falwell, or any religious organization.
I tithe/donate money to numerous organizations including my Church, Habitat for Humanity , Christian Children's Fund, Soldiers Angels, Homeless, etc...
It's my 'personal choice' as I do what I can, care less of what much of the Old Testament says.
But that's just me.
I also do not care what you or anyone else believes in as long as you do not try to inhibit my 1st Amendment rights to practice my religion.

My angst is when 'self imposed geniuses' declare that my belief is wrong.
Specially when they don't have a clue other than unsubstantiated claims.

B) xUT

I must have misled you.

I simply posted what I knew about the tithe.

I care not about your belief, nor do I ever impose mine upon anybody.

All I did was post some verses from the old and new testament.

You can fight it out as you see fit. :unsure:

 

[xUT]

I must have misled you.

I simply posted what I knew about the tithe.

I care not about your belief, nor do I ever impose mine upon anybody.

All I did was post some verses from the old and new testament.

You can fight it out as you see fit. :unsure:

Sorry, I thought you had a point.
I'll ignore your posts from now on.
B) xUT

 

[delldude]

Kill 'em all and let God sort them out. :unsure:

That last statement from the Bible sounds strikingly familiar to a speech I recently heard.

Praise Obama! Praise Him!

Its simply class envy.