Atheism
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SparrowHawk
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Like it or don't the scientific jury is still out.
I still have a problem as to why what two or three or four consenting adults do in the privacy of their home is anyone's business? Especially the government! Marriage is a function of the church, not the government.
I must be the worlds second dumbest man because I just don't get why this is the Governments issue?
Ms Tree
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Because religion made it governments business by seeking protection from the government. That is why you need a license from the state to get married and for it to a legally binding document. These are two separate functions that have been combined under one house.
My marriage is legal and binding yet no religion was involved. A marriage conducted in a church without a state issued license has no legal standing what so ever. The sole exception I can think of is common law marriage but that again is based on state law and not religion.
Had the state not become involved in marriage, any body could marry any body or anything and as many people or things as they chose. Religion wanted to have absolute control over marriage so they involved the state into the situation. Everything was fine and dandy for quite some time till social norms started to change and people who were disenfranchised got a voice. Now they want equal access to marriage contracts. Religion should have thought of that before they decided to involve the state in their effort to control who could and could not get married. Now they are stuck with it and more and more states are over turning their unlawful barriers to gay marriage.
So why did you choose to be straight and not gay? When you tried being gay you did not like it? How about being Bi? You did not like that either?
My marriage is legal and binding yet no religion was involved. A marriage conducted in a church without a state issued license has no legal standing what so ever. The sole exception I can think of is common law marriage but that again is based on state law and not religion.
Had the state not become involved in marriage, any body could marry any body or anything and as many people or things as they chose. Religion wanted to have absolute control over marriage so they involved the state into the situation. Everything was fine and dandy for quite some time till social norms started to change and people who were disenfranchised got a voice. Now they want equal access to marriage contracts. Religion should have thought of that before they decided to involve the state in their effort to control who could and could not get married. Now they are stuck with it and more and more states are over turning their unlawful barriers to gay marriage.
So why did you choose to be straight and not gay? When you tried being gay you did not like it? How about being Bi? You did not like that either?
SparrowHawk
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I've nothing to add as I never intend on getting married again.
Any society has the right to impose standards, even the Taliban and the rules they applied for women.
Many in this society regard Homosexuality as a deviation. Some as an abomination and proof of Satan's existence. Rights are conferred by our creator! you don't believe in a Creator, ergo your opinions do not count until you acknowledge a Creator. Otherwise you have no rights
Any society has the right to impose standards, even the Taliban and the rules they applied for women.
Many in this society regard Homosexuality as a deviation. Some as an abomination and proof of Satan's existence. Rights are conferred by our creator! you don't believe in a Creator, ergo your opinions do not count until you acknowledge a Creator. Otherwise you have no rights
Ms Tree
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So if you do not choose to exercise a right, then you have no interest in defending it? Just a bit selfish but again not surprising.
Not sure what point is trying to be made with that comparison.
Make up your mind. Does the COTUS protect unpopular speech and other rights or not. Assuming my rights are conferred by some creator, how does my not believing have any effect on that fact? Just because I do not believe the earth is round does not negate the fact that it is. So whether I believe your theory of where rights originate or not does not negate my rights.
And he would still be a soldier placing his life on the line willing to defend his nation that does not view him as an equal and STILL deserving far more respect than he received from any of the candidates including your boy Paul. That little pitiful display of character showed that they are all willing to place partisan politics before honor and integrity. It showed that they have no regard for the soldiers who do not fit their biases. It showed that Paul is no different from the rest of the bigots running for office on the republican ticket. He remained silent when he should have spoken up.
D
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DarkSnowyNight
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You're surprised? It was a stupid thing to say. You were obviously trying to incite something, and the logical fallacies of your analogy became apparent.
This has never been an issue of us hating christians. But if you think we're going to stand by and be treated like a bunch of second class citizens, by a bunch bigoted "believers" who have no appreciation of how far we've all advanced in spite of their best efforts, you've got another thing coming. We're here, and we're not going to pretend your beliefs are the only option anymore. Get used to it.
xUT
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When GOD gave me a penis and I saw it was good.
I had no choice. I was born male, always chased girls/women since birth. I grew up in a predominantly gay community in the late 60’s. My night manager was gay (he liked to be called queer), very nice 30 year old guy, lived with his mother. He would let us use his convertible for road trips, buy us drugs and booze. He never forced himself on anyone (that I know of) other than homosexual innuendos. I was still a virgin 15 yr old teenager, but when I saw him swapping spit with another guy, I blew chunks. I quit shortly thereafter. In later years I was using Greyhound to transit to basic training, one of my old buddies was selling hummers for 25 cents in the terminal bathroom.
Now tell me your story.
xUT
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xUT
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What are they? Seems quite logical since atheists are trying to squelch religion.
There you are with your ‘logical’ thinking. It is logical, right?
Do you have freedom of religion? Yes
Do you have freedom from religion? Yes
In both cases, yes you do.
Are atheists treated as second class citizens? No
Bigoted Believers: Please expound on that remark. Since you are bigoted about religion, please feel free to include yourself.
B) xUT
DarkSnowyNight
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Are atheists treated as second class citizens? We most certainly are. This is not up for debate. But it will not be like that for ever, as is obvious. Better enjoy the status quo while you can.
And since you seem very supportive of that position (enjoying the status quo), given what is involved, yes that makes you bigoted in no unspecific terms.
As for us, not so simple. Our outlook is no more bigoted towards religion than a doctor's is toward cancer. Eventually this condition will be eradicated as more and more people become less patient with the issue, and in general more educated, but until then, it is a condition that we simply have to put up with being uncomfortably close to.
For most of you, on the other hand, there is an unmistakable resentment at our very presence. Color it any way you want, but that makes you bigoted.
And to correct you, yet again as seems to be necessary, no, no one has freedom from religion. That doesn't happen until people grow up and start treating it as a private matter instead of insisting that they trot their "faith" out in public, insisting that the rest of us go out of our way to accommodate that at every opportunity.
You seriously believe people choose to be gay? With everything that comes with that, the intolerance and prejudices, and in general mistreatments (especially from the religious crowd), you seriously believe that? The only people who claim the jury is out on that one generally have an interest in saying so. There is little, if any, science involved with taking that position.
Ms Tree
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I believe he already admitted that he was wrong on that count. He stated that he was born the way he is and had no choice as is the case with an overwhelming majority.
There is a small percentage who consciously try something different, "experiment" if you will. Oddly, most of the people I know who did that are gay people who tried to be straight in order to fit in and because of societal pressures. Being gay was wrong so they tried not to be gay. Several of them got married. A few even had children but after a while the misery of pretending to be someone they were not just became to much. They got divorced, lived life as nature seemed to intend and everyone was happier after the hurt gave way to understanding.
The way I see it, you liberal progressives are pushing some sort of Godless agenda, that believes you can justify any behavior through moral relativism or junk science. Progressives like to think their way is the only way. Well who are the real Huckleberry's? Check this short video out, kinda interesting. http://www.therightscoop.com/open-thread-grinding-america-down/
