Attn JFK flight attendants JFK-GIG

[jersey777]

There is a campaign here in JFK to ask the company to make the JFK-GIG trip a four day trip and not a bullet. If you are based in JFK then please contact the base manager and Northeast Regional manager and ask them for their help in ensuring we get to enjoy a nice layover in Rio.

 

[Hopeful]

There is a campaign here in JFK to ask the company to make the JFK-GIG trip a four day trip and not a bullet. If you are based in JFK then please contact the base manager and Northeast Regional manager and ask them for their help in ensuring we get to enjoy a nice layover in Rio.

Just curious...is JFK-RIO that much different a trip than JFK-GRU other than a little bit more time in the air?
Do you really think the company is going to consider a "nice layover" in RIO considering current negotiations status?

I'm not saying that it is not worth a try, but knowing AA, they will always want something in return....

 

[jersey777]

Just curious...is JFK-RIO that much different a trip than JFK-GRU other than a little bit more time in the air?
Do you really think the company is going to consider a "nice layover" in RIO considering current negotiations status?

I'm not saying that it is not worth a try, but knowing AA, they will always want something in return....

There are many factors at work here. GRU and GIG are about the same flying time but the way AA has scheduled JFK-GIG-JFK there is only a 10:55 layover if they make the trip a bullet. We, as flight attendants, must have a 10 hour layover on these long haul flights so any lengthy delay out of JFK will make the return flight from GIG be delayed. This was happening quite a bit on the JFK-LHR-JFK bullet trip and they have since switched the return flight out of LHR so there are no rest legalities that come into play. We do have a scheduling committee for the flight attendants and management does take our input. Money is always the major consideration but sometimes with help from local management we are more successful in fulfilling our requests. Now there are a lot of flight attendants that like the bullet flights. The JFK-GRU trip goes very senior because there is a group out there that likes to put their time in and get home. I believe that either way this trip is paired it is going to go senior. It is just my hope that management figures in all the variables including quality of life, morale and rest when they make their decision. With local managements help we have a better chance making this trip a long layover to enjoy Rio.

 

[Hopeful]

Thanks for explaining it.

 

[Bob Owens]

There are many factors at work here. GRU and GIG are about the same flying time but the way AA has scheduled JFK-GIG-JFK there is only a 10:55 layover if they make the trip a bullet. We, as flight attendants, must have a 10 hour layover on these long haul flights so any lengthy delay out of JFK will make the return flight from GIG be delayed. This was happening quite a bit on the JFK-LHR-JFK bullet trip and they have since switched the return flight out of LHR so there are no rest legalities that come into play. We do have a scheduling committee for the flight attendants and management does take our input. Money is always the major consideration but sometimes with help from local management we are more successful in fulfilling our requests. Now there are a lot of flight attendants that like the bullet flights. The JFK-GRU trip goes very senior because there is a group out there that likes to put their time in and get home. I believe that either way this trip is paired it is going to go senior. It is just my hope that management figures in all the variables including quality of life, morale and rest when they make their decision. With local managements help we have a better chance making this trip a long layover to enjoy Rio.

Two delays for the price of one. That should be enough to motivate managemnt.

 

[floatingon9]

There is a campaign here in JFK to ask the company to make the JFK-GIG trip a four day trip and not a bullet. If you are based in JFK then please contact the base manager and Northeast Regional manager and ask them for their help in ensuring we get to enjoy a nice layover in Rio.

Jason Davis the NE Regional Manager is not going to make this a good layover. He hates flight attendants and could careless what happens. His bonus is paid on how little he spends for the base and other items. He is a joke and kissed JT's a** to get his job. I will spit on him, next time I see him. I hate this guy more than any human on earth!

 

[AAStew]

Jason Davis the NE Regional Manager is not going to make this a good layover. He hates flight attendants and could careless what happens. His bonus is paid on how little he spends for the base and other items. He is a joke and kissed JT's a** to get his job. I will spit on him, next time I see him. I hate this guy more than any human on earth!

So..how do you really feel about him? 😛 I agree with you, from what I know about him he has probably figured the delays in the long run will cost him less than putting up crews for an extra night and paying the extra per diem. I don't know what hotel it is but if it is a different one than the short layover...don't waste your breath. The company doesn't care. 🙁

 

[butchord45]

So..how do you really feel about him? 😛 I agree with you, from what I know about him he has probably figured the delays in the long run will cost him less than putting up crews for an extra night and paying the extra per diem. I don't know what hotel it is but if it is a different one than the short layover...don't waste your breath. The company doesn't care. 🙁

What the hell is a bullet?????

 

[boston]

What the hell is a bullet?????

Otherwise known as the Rio Rocket, trips that are a fairly long flying time of 8hrs or more with a min layover. The base chair in Miami went to the base manager when they started these and tried to get them changed, but a select few senior F/A's dig them and they won out. I've yet to have to do one, but they are becoming more and more popular, for they are considered productive to some. They can have them.

yup, you leave usually at night arrive in the morning,sleep and depart home that night of the arrival.

At times, Miami has a 2 day, daylight trip to GRU and EZE and that is do able for you leave around noon fly 8-9hrs, arrive about 10:00 pm local time , and depaert the next day around 11:00-12:00 and you back in Miami by 5:00-7:00 that day, not to hard on your body. You can hold the trip if your around 30yrs.

hope this helps.

 

[eolesen]

So..how do you really feel about him? 😛 I agree with you, from what I know about him he has probably figured the delays in the long run will cost him less than putting up crews for an extra night and paying the extra per diem. I don't know what hotel it is but if it is a different one than the short layover...don't waste your breath. The company doesn't care. 🙁

Hmm. If there are extremely senior people who want them so they can get their hours in with one less day away from home, the line "the company doesn't care" doesn't seem to ring true... Otherwise, the senior folks wouldn't be bidding them.

The company's job is to schedule people as productive as they can. One one thread you all complain that the company is ineffecient, then when they're efficient, you complain. The only consistency here is complaining about the company....

 

[boston]

Hmm. If there are extremely senior people who want them so they can get their hours in with one less day away from home, the line "the company doesn't care" doesn't seem to ring true... Otherwise, the senior folks wouldn't be bidding them.

The company's job is to schedule people as productive as they can. One one thread you all complain that the company is ineffecient, then when they're efficient, you complain. The only consistency here is complaining about the company....

They are very senior in Miami, but just because they are senior doesn't mean they are liked by all. To each there own. It leaves what some see as great trips to more Jr f/A's such as LHR,MAD,CDG, or the 28.5 4 day trip we see now and again out of Miami.

 

[eolesen]

[quote name=Jersey777] I just hope management figures in all the variables including quality of life, morale and rest when they make their decision. With local managements help we have a better chance making this trip a long layover to enjoy Rio.[/quote]

If there are dependability issues such as legality delays, then the company has to do what they have to in order to address it.

But aside from that, why should anyone expect the company to give you a free day in Rio?.... I just got back from a business trip where I did extend a few days, and the hotel and meals for all that came out of my pocket, as it should. Asking the company to pad the layovers is nothing more than featherbedding and adding to the inefficiencies that you guys complain about.... Sure, it's hard flying to do a two day trip, but apparently more and more people like this because it racks up hours quickly.

 

[AAStew]

Hmm. If there are extremely senior people who want them so they can get their hours in with one less day away from home, the line "the company doesn't care" doesn't seem to ring true... Otherwise, the senior folks wouldn't be bidding them.

The company's job is to schedule people as productive as they can. One one thread you all complain that the company is ineffecient, then when they're efficient, you complain. The only consistency here is complaining about the company....

Eric I think you read more into what I said than was there! I personally hate long layovers as I feel they are not a productive use of my time. If I was running the company and I had to figure the costs of a few delays versus the cost of labor that was not producing, I would most certainly choose the most cost effective. That is what I meant by the company doesn't care. There are many factors as you may well know that aren't always on paper such as arrival and departure dependability and the public's perception of the product we offer, which are what I feel management does not take into consideration. Instead they rely on number crunching which isn't always the most effective.

 

[eolesen]

There are many factors as you may well know that aren't always on paper such as arrival and departure dependability and the public's perception of the product we offer, which are what I feel management does not take into consideration. Instead they rely on number crunching which isn't always the most effective.

I think you're selling HDQ a little short on this one.... I used to manage one of the groups tasked with measuring dependability, and when something as controllable as Crew Legality starts to shows up as a trend on a given flight, it's noticed. We didn't just crank out a variance report (plan vs. actual) and say "oh, looks like there's a problem there. Want to go get a latte?..." Even HDQ staff know that the obvious cause isn't always the real cause.

It's a little tougher to get your hands around the customer perception aspects since such a small percentage of customers inconvenienced actually complain, but even there, historically there have been analysts who look out for the types of issues you're bringing up, and work with the scheduling and planning guys to get it addressed. For the non-US departures, they used to be located in the division offices in Coral Gables & London. Not sure if that's still the case, but I seriously doubt they jettisoned the job responsibility...

 

[jersey777]

If there are dependability issues such as legality delays, then the company has to do what they have to in order to address it.

But aside from that, why should anyone expect the company to give you a free day in Rio?.... I just got back from a business trip where I did extend a few days, and the hotel and meals for all that came out of my pocket, as it should. Asking the company to pad the layovers is nothing more than featherbedding and adding to the inefficiencies that you guys complain about.... Sure, it's hard flying to do a two day trip, but apparently more and more people like this because it racks up hours quickly.

If there is not much of a cost issue it becomes a quality of life issue. Right after the 2003 destruction of our contract the company was able to go to FAA minimums on our layovers. That means that layovers could legally go to 8:30 minutes even on long haul Europe. We had JFK-CDG-JFK scheduled at 8:35 minutes. It only lasted a few months. Even stingy AA realized that FAA minimums are not appropriate at times. The APFA was able to renegotiate this issue and now we have a minimum of 10:30 on IFS trips. As much as AA crunches numbers, there are several instances where they actually listen to their employees. Every layover hotel is chosen not solely on price and has input from the APA and APFA hotel committees.


As far as being productive goes there are two camps. There are those that choose to fly minimum days and there are those like myself who still enjoy layovers. I fly between 110-120 hours per month so that means I usually have to fly at least 20 days a month vs 15 if I flew turns or minimum layovers. That is my choice. When people complain about being unproductive they are mainly talking about sit time and not layovers so you are wrong to say that we are "always" complaining about being unproductive.



One more note, in the winter when we go to 5 or 6 days a week to BCN,MXP,CDG and ZRH the 2 day layovers are very popular and go senior.