Trip Report/Comment--AA JFK-MIA-JFK

[kirkpatrick]

Just a couple of quick comments. No excuse for the mediocre FC service, but there are some unmotivated people out there, not just at AA but at other airlines, including my now defunct former employer. As for the service in coach, only one beverage service is called for on flights of under three hours, and that's flight time, not block time. Also on flights of that length there are no sandwiches or substantial snacks offered, just the cookies and chips. The availability should have been announced, or they should have been offered while the drinks were being done.

As for padding schedules, the public has the impression that the airlines are adding huge buffers on the flights in order to show up as being on time. A little thinking will show this just isn't so. We're paid actual or scheduled, whichever is greater. Pilots as well. If this padding were really there it would cost the company millions. Sometimes at an airport like JFK I've noticed I'll taxi out and be off in ten minutes. The next day, same flight, same time, same weather, same runway, forty-five minute taxi. The published flight times are averages, and you'll notice if you check all the JFK-LAX flights, for example, you'll see variations according to time of day.

MK (hopefully coming back soon)

 

[Maark767]

Gee Jersey, maybe you were a crew member on one of my flights.

The point was not that I expected ANY special treatment whatsoever, but a little interaction would have been nice--and remembering a request for water would have been nice.

Doing the absolute minimum is a problem--and should be recognized as such.

Here's an idea, Jersey, take a trip on DL or CO and you'll see the difference....and it always wasn't this way...

Again I am not here to bash, just to make an observation....

Guess what??? There are pax over at DL and CO saying the same thing " I'm going over to AA , they'll treat me better"
Pax have to get real.... It's just a bus in the sky.... no more frills. Pax want $89 from JFK to LAX.... you get what you pay for.

 

[Maark767]

Just a couple of quick comments. No excuse for the mediocre FC service, but there are some unmotivated people out there, not just at AA but at other airlines, including my now defunct former employer. As for the service in coach, only one beverage service is called for on flights of under three hours, and that's flight time, not block time. Also on flights of that length there are no sandwiches or substantial snacks offered, just the cookies and chips. The availability should have been announced, or they should have been offered while the drinks were being done.

As for padding schedules, the public has the impression that the airlines are adding huge buffers on the flights in order to show up as being on time. A little thinking will show this just isn't so. We're paid actual or scheduled, whichever is greater. Pilots as well. If this padding were really there it would cost the company millions. Sometimes at an airport like JFK I've noticed I'll taxi out and be off in ten minutes. The next day, same flight, same time, same weather, same runway, forty-five minute taxi. The published flight times are averages, and you'll notice if you check all the JFK-LAX flights, for example, you'll see variations according to time of day.

MK (hopefully coming back soon)

MK , I hope to see you soon..... keeping my fingers crossed. I think with all this new flying there should be a recall ..

 

[Art at ISP]

Actually Maark, you are right to some degree, but my experience is consistently better on the other carriers. As stated, the issue here is more acute in F, but even in coach, they all looked like they were just going through the motions, and when I asked a question, I got a look as if i was disturbing the FA.

The bottom line is that there is no excuse whatsoever for taking labor issues out on customers. It does not help your cause, and makes it harder to keep business you might already have.

Oh--and I paid significantly more than $89 for my fare.....

Nuff said.

 

[Winglet]

It's the way it is because that's the way the "top talent" managers at AA want it. I would suggest that you forward that letter to what passes for "leadership" at AA.

 

[Bob Owens]

Doing the absolute minimum is a problem--and should be recognized as such.

Its the other way around, the company pays the absolute minumum so now, after several years of being subjected to the companys stonewalling and taking advantage of the RLA the FAs may be doing the same. Hope you sent the letter to Arpey.

Just goes to show, you picked the trip because of the equipment but your final impression was made by the people.

By the way how much did you pay for your seat?

When you think of a way that workers can effectively put pressure on a company without it affecting patrons let us know.

 

[Veritas]

Then I walked up to the cashier and I asked her if I could get a glass of water and she just looked at me like I was crazy!

The cashier at a supermarket or a drug store is justified looking at you as a lunatic when you ask for a glass of water. Serving beverages in not in her/his job description.

On the other hand, beverage service is one of the duties of flight attendants.

Go on; poison the well from which you drink. The only place that will get you is the unemployment line.

 

[eolesen]

I love how there's always an excuse why someone in a customer contact job can't provide even the most basic of courtesies -- a response.

When those of you who are FA's interviewed for the job, I don't think you told the recruiters that you wanted the job so that you could protect the safety of customers and do nothing more than that. You probably said something fluffy like "I'm a people person!" and "I love helping others"...

If you can't remember why you took the job, and still do that after 10, 20, or 30 years, then it's time to go take a job at the DMV.

 

[Maark767]

Actually Maark, you are right to some degree, but my experience is consistently better on the other carriers. As stated, the issue here is more acute in F, but even in coach, they all looked like they were just going through the motions, and when I asked a question, I got a look as if i was disturbing the FA.

The bottom line is that there is no excuse whatsoever for taking labor issues out on customers. It does not help your cause, and makes it harder to keep business you might already have.

Oh--and I paid significantly more than $89 for my fare.....

Nuff said.

What you described happens at all airlines.... You think that every flight at DL and CO have smiley F/As all the time??
Please , you try working 16 hrs , 4 different flights in one day , then go ahead and smile. F/As have taken huge cuts way before the economy tanked. We employees have been in a nose dive since 2001. Now thats not an excuse but we are only human.
BTW... I have sources .......and I hear from my sources that American is way better. They look forward to flying American and have have very little to say about DL. I trust my sources....

 

[Maark767]

The cashier at a supermarket or a drug store is justified looking at you as a lunatic when you ask for a glass of water. Serving beverages in not in her/his job description.

On the other hand, beverage service is one of the duties of flight attendants.

Go on; poison the well from which you drink. The only place that will get you is the unemployment line.

Remember next time you fly... #1 Its a bus in the sky, no more frills. Pretend you are getting on the "A" train going uptown.

#2 There always will be someone in that seat, at $40 to $100 per fare I see the well never drying up !!

 

[Art at ISP]

The bitterness shows. This is not supposed to be a labor related thread, but you choose to turn it into one.

Maybe there's a reason why airlines without unions do tend to offer better customer service.

If you're miserable with your job, quit. Don't take it out on customers. If you're not willing to do the job, move on.

What I paid for my seat is irrelevant and none of your business.

Treating passengers poorly and doing the minimum will not help your cause it will work against you.

And while you are right Maark, there are bad FA's in every airline, the law of averages is against you. 80-90 segments on airlines other than AA, NO issues with FA's. 2 segments on AA, issues......

 

[jimntx]

How sad that my fellow AA flight attendants feel the need to justify poor service. There is NO justification. I told a fellow flight attendant recently that life was way to short to work at a job she seemed to hate as much as this one. And, don't give me the "I took a paycut in 2003" argument. So did I, along with a 17 month furlough. That ship has sailed. If you are not being paid what you think you are worth, the 13th Amendment to the Constitution outlawing slavery has not been repealed. No one is forcing you to stay.

We can all blather all we want about "We are not sky waiters and waitresses. We are safety professionals." Ok, and the public will still expect us to bring them a glass of water and answer questions. As far as I know, there is no part of my job description that says I am responsible for keeping the jumpseat in the down position by sitting on it. In fact, my fondest wish is that the day I retire from American, I can say, "You know. All that safety stuff we did at recurrent training every year was a total waste of time. I never needed any of it."

Art, please accept my apology for your experience. And, please believe that not all AA flight attendants are like the ones you encountered on your trip.

 

[Maark767]

How sad that my fellow AA flight attendants feel the need to justify poor service. There is NO justification. I told a fellow flight attendant recently that life was way to short to work at a job she seemed to hate as much as this one. And, don't give me the "I took a paycut in 2003" argument. So did I, along with a 17 month furlough. That ship has sailed. If you are not being paid what you think you are worth, the 13th Amendment to the Constitution outlawing slavery has not been repealed. No one is forcing you to stay.

We can all blather all we want about "We are not sky waiters and waitresses. We are safety professionals." Ok, and the public will still expect us to bring them a glass of water and answer questions. As far as I know, there is no part of my job description that says I am responsible for keeping the jumpseat in the down position by sitting on it. In fact, my fondest wish is that the day I retire from American, I can say, "You know. All that safety stuff we did at recurrent training every year was a total waste of time. I never needed any of it."

Art, please accept my apology for your experience. And, please believe that not all AA flight attendants are like the ones you encountered on your trip.

Art, please know that if you were ever on one of my flights (Long ,wide body trips ) you'd walk away feeling pleased you chose American. I go above and beyond on every trip..... Thats just me and how I do my job . I have a stack of good letters to prove it... By no means am I trying to pat myself on the back but I wanted to share that with you. Please know that we appreciate your business and hope you will once again fly American.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Congrats to you, Jim and Maark, for having a healthy view of life and your job.

I wondered how long I would read this thread before someone apologized. and was amazed at the excuses that were passed around.

It really doesn't matter which company is being discussed and in what industry; Americans have created the largest economy in the world and because of that they have more choices than consumers do in any other country in the world.

Whether airline employees want to view the service they provide as mass transportation or not doesn't change the fac that consumers OVERWHELMINGLY do not agree... they expect service which is part of the reason that US airlines are consistently rated as one of the most hated industries. There is a whole lot about flying that cannot be controlled including weather, traffic, and mechanicals that can ruin a trip. But there is also a whole lot about a trip that can make a flight very memorable - and statistics are very clear that the chances are very good that there WON'T be a mechanical or ATC delay or bad weather.... it is easy for an airline to overcome a bad experience with a passenger if they handle that situation reasonably decently AND if they treat the customer well when the only variables are how well you treat the customer.

Americans have come to expect - and give - some of the worst customer service in the world but there is something inherent in the human being that says if there is a human being present, there is some level of interaction with that person tha is required. There is no expectation of human interaction on a subway if you enter through an automated turnstile and the train doors are opened and closed by a person who does not need to interact with passengers.... no one expects to be told hello on a city bus or train - and their expectations are usually met.

If AA's standards state that one beverage service for 3 hrs of flying time is sufficient then the company has succombed to flight attendant outcries and no longer expect them to provide anything behind the very basic level of service. Problem is that other airlines have much higher standards and deliver on those standards.
Maark, while AA generally does get reasonably decent marks for international service, the majority of AA's revenue still comes from its domestic network. Further, all of AA's international markets are highly competitive. Pan Am proved that no matter how good your international service is, you can't sustain an airline if there is no domestic system behind it. AA has been shrinking its domestic system and has basically decided that it will focus its efforts on just five domestic markets - and most of them, LAX and NYC included, are highly competitive and there is no US airline that has a clear dominance, making it very easy for the balance of power to change - just as it has in NYC as DL's expansion and merger has moved it ahead of AA in size and just as AA will be passed in LAX by UA/CO.

There are two words that many of you disgruntled American Airlines employees need to remember: Eastern Airlines. Decades of labor-management discord finally sunk that airline even though it was one of the US' premier airlines at one time. To believe that AA is not susceptible is simple foolishness. Multiple airlines are taking aim at American Airlines network and passengers and neutralizing one advantage after another that AA once had. UA has succeeded in neutralizing much of AA's ability to grow at ORD and has forced AA to pull back one international flight after another. DL has invaded one AA market after another from LGA and JFK despite NYC once being AA's home. WN has move the right to fly from DAL to the entire US in a process that will be phased in over the next few years. Every US int'l carrier now serves LHR and UA/CO combined will be larger at LHR than AA. After the UA/CO merger, the only global region of the world where AA is still higher than #3 among US carriers is Latin America, the smallest region in the world - even if it is growing... but so is Africa and Asia, regions where AA has very little presence. The only significant part of AA's network which has not been significantly invaded by another carrier is S. Florida to S. America and even there Spirit has its foot in the door.

AA employees should be scared to death about the future of the company. Management surely must accept alot of responsibility but the continuous labor discord which has led to the highest labor costs in the US industry with no chance of improvement on the horizon while competitors continue to invade key AA markets is not solely AA mgmt's problem to fix. AA management has clearly taken the approach that they are not going to push labor to the breaking point in order to keep what little peace still remains. AA's labor better step up to the plate and take responsibility for what they can fix - such as acting halfway like they are willing to earn their paychecks - or they will end up just like the thousands of former Eastern Airlines employees.

We can hope that people like jimntx will somehow survive but the simple reality is that many good people got swept out with Eastern Airlines.

 

[jlynne]

How sad that my fellow AA flight attendants feel the need to justify poor service. There is NO justification. I told a fellow flight attendant recently that life was way to short to work at a job she seemed to hate as much as this one. And, don't give me the "I took a paycut in 2003" argument. So did I, along with a 17 month furlough. That ship has sailed. If you are not being paid what you think you are worth, the 13th Amendment to the Constitution outlawing slavery has not been repealed. No one is forcing you to stay.

We can all blather all we want about "We are not sky waiters and waitresses. We are safety professionals." Ok, and the public will still expect us to bring them a glass of water and answer questions. As far as I know, there is no part of my job description that says I am responsible for keeping the jumpseat in the down position by sitting on it. In fact, my fondest wish is that the day I retire from American, I can say, "You know. All that safety stuff we did at recurrent training every year was a total waste of time. I never needed any of it."

Art, please accept my apology for your experience. And, please believe that not all AA flight attendants are like the ones you encountered on your trip.

Thank you, Jim. I've been sitting here horrified by what has been said by some of my co-workers. You put what I have been thinking into words much better than I could have.