August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[cactusboy53]

Only in the state of Pennsylvania and only if accompanied by the phrase " I agree to be legally bound" with a third party witness.

More Nic as- smoke.

Should've got it in writing - ever heard of that?

Uhm, we did. We were ALL represented by the Airline Pilots Association. We each were a party, PLUS the company to an agreed upon process to mediate, and if necessary arbitrate:

[font="Times New Roman""] “In this instance, despite a year of negotiating efforts, there was no agreement on a list. Subsequently, the Representatives choose the Undersigned as Board Chairman and opted for the Med-Arb process. Those mediation efforts, held over the course of five days in October 2006, were similarly unsuccessful. Thereafter, the Parties agreed on the arbitration ground rules, and, pursuant to the Policy, each chose a Pilot Neutral from ALPA's Pilot Neutral Master List as a nonvoting member of the Arbitration Board.”[/font]
[font="Times New Roman""] [/font]
[font="Times New Roman""]George Nicolau, Mediator[/font]

[font="Times New Roman""]AWA/AAA Opinion & Award; May 07, 2007 [/font]

It's funny how you USAPA-faithful keep thinking that you're going to dodge this bullet. You miss-quote and miss-characterize the courts orders and findings. All you have won is delay. DANGEROUS GROUND.

 

[Phoenix]

Uhm, we did. We were ALL represented by the Airline Pilots Association. We each were a party, PLUS the company to an agreed upon process to mediate, and if necessary arbitrate:

[font=Times New Roman"] “In this instance, despite a year of negotiating efforts, there was no agreement on a list. Subsequently, the Representatives choose the Undersigned as Board Chairman and opted for the Med-Arb process. Those mediation efforts, held over the course of five days in October 2006, were similarly unsuccessful. Thereafter, the Parties agreed on the arbitration ground rules, and, pursuant to the Policy, each chose a Pilot Neutral from ALPA's Pilot Neutral Master List as a nonvoting member of the Arbitration Board.”[/font]

[font=Times New Roman"]George Nicolau, Mediator[/font]

[font=Times New Roman"]AWA/AAA Opinion & Award; May 07, 2007 [/font]

It's funny how you USAPA-faithful keep thinking that you're going to dodge this bullet. You miss-quote and miss-characterize the courts orders and findings. All you have won is delay. DANGEROUS GROUND.

The TA is a legal instrument, and all agreements contained within it or subordinate to it are binding according to it, to the extent the TA is binding (Thank you Judge Silver for the clarification). No more, no less. Even so, simply changing the TA, or superseding the TA with a new TAMOU is not in itself proof of a breach of DFR. The implicit assumption otherwise has already been proven futile.

Be that as it may, until Marty starts from the premise that the SCOTUS laid out for a DFR suit (wide range of reasonableness), he will continue to be a hamster spinning on his circular exercise wheel, he will burn though a lot of calories and get nowhere.

 

[Reed Richards]

Uhm, we did. We were ALL represented by the Airline Pilots Association. We each were a party, PLUS the company to an agreed upon process to mediate, and if necessary arbitrate:

“In this instance, despite a year of negotiating efforts, there was no agreement on a list. Subsequently, the Representatives choose the Undersigned as Board Chairman and opted for the Med-Arb process. Those mediation efforts, held over the course of five days in October 2006, were similarly unsuccessful. Thereafter, the Parties agreed on the arbitration ground rules, and, pursuant to the Policy, each chose a Pilot Neutral from ALPA's Pilot Neutral Master List as a nonvoting member of the Arbitration Board.”

George Nicolau, Mediator

AWA/AAA Opinion & Award; May 07, 2007

It's funny how you USAPA-faithful keep thinking that you're going to dodge this bullet. You miss-quote and miss-characterize the courts orders and findings. All you have won is delay. DANGEROUS GROUND.

Why did ALPA not impose the list, as they easily could have done? Prater could have taken over both MECs and signed off on a contract with Parker at any time. He did not in May of 2007. He did not for almost a year. He was either so ashamed of the product or lacked any balls. I say both. I see the West class is crowing about the UAL/CO list that is supposedly out. That will be yet another ALPA product. They seem to have done a little better with DAL/ NWA, and hopefully they improved on that. But we at USAPA are light years ahead. We avoid all the unfairness of slotting and ratios, and go for DOH with fences and restrictions. That will be our argument in stand alone negotiations, about 2 years from now. That would have been the argument we would have made in M/B for YOU, in the now failed AMR merger. All we have won is delay? Delay is our friend. That is until Marty convinces Judge Silver we have to prove his case. RR

 

[Phoenix]

Why did ALPA not impose the list, as they easily could have done? Prater could have taken over both MECs and signed off on a contract with Parker at any time. He did not in May of 2007. He did not for almost a year. He was either so ashamed of the product or lacked any balls. I say both. I see the West class is crowing about the UAL/CO list that is supposedly out. That will be yet another ALPA product. They seem to have done a little better with DAL/ NWA, and hopefully they improved on that. But we at USAPA are light years ahead. We avoid all the unfairness of slotting and ratios, and go for DOH with fences and restrictions. That will be our argument in stand alone negotiations, about 2 years from now. That would have been the argument we would have made in M/B for YOU, in the now failed AMR merger. All we have won is delay? Delay is our friend. That is until Marty convinces Judge Silver we have to prove his case. RR

If Marty is able to snooker Judge Silver into forcing Pat to bare the burden of the plaintiff (as Marty in fact attempted the last time he spoke to Silver) then we will all have many more months of delay and Marty will have lots more billing. How come the West hasn't given me my link to donate to Marty?!! 😀

 

[Claxon]

I understand the UAL/CAL seniority list is out.

Hearing it went ratios for equipment and status.

Uhm, we did. We were ALL represented by the Airline Pilots Association. We each were a party, PLUS the company to an agreed upon process to mediate, and if necessary arbitrate:

[font=Times New Roman"] “In this instance, despite a year of negotiating efforts, there was no agreement on a list. Subsequently, the Representatives choose the Undersigned as Board Chairman and opted for the Med-Arb process. Those mediation efforts, held over the course of five days in October 2006, were similarly unsuccessful. Thereafter, the Parties agreed on the arbitration ground rules, and, pursuant to the Policy, each chose a Pilot Neutral from ALPA's Pilot Neutral Master List as a nonvoting member of the Arbitration Board.”[/font]

[font=Times New Roman"]George Nicolau, Mediator[/font]

[font=Times New Roman"]AWA/AAA Opinion & Award; May 07, 2007 [/font]

It's funny how you USAPA-faithful keep thinking that you're going to dodge this bullet. You miss-quote and miss-characterize the courts orders and findings. All you have won is delay. DANGEROUS GROUND.

Us Airways, America West Seniority Dispute rough draft timeline

2005-2006 US Airways, United in merger talks

2005 Us Airways, America West merge

May 2007 Arbitrator George Nicolau’ pilot seniority award was issued. The award was written with the assistance of two ALPA pilot neutrals, Steve Gillen United Airlines Pilot and Jim Brucia former Continental pilot now United Airlines Pilot.

2007 Us Airways pilots ask ALPA to review the award. ALPA president John Prater, former Continental pilot now United Airlines pilot, assigns ALPA vice president Paul Rice, United pilot, to review the award.

December 2007, Paul Rice, United pilot, delivers seniority list to Us Airways.

2007 A group of Us Airways pilots start a drive to start their own in house pilot union.

March 2008 ALPA President John Prater and now United pilot, puts the Us Airways ALPA Mec in trusteeship.

April 2008 In a National Mediation Board sanctioned election, Us Airways pilots oust ALPA and vote in USAPA as their official pilot representative.

May 2008 United calls off merger talk with Us Airways.

June 24, 2008 United Airlines starts furloughing pilots that will eventually lead to 1450 pilots at United on the street. Had a merger occurred using the Nicolau award derived with the assistance of United pilot neutrals, Us Airways pilots would have suffered the brunt of the furloughs and few United pilots would have been effected.

2008 America West pilots sue for DFR against USAPA.

2009 2010 US Airways and United restart merger talks.

April 2010 United, Us Airways end merger talks.

June 2010 The 9th circuit court rules in USAPA’s favor.

 

[Claxon]

May 2007 Arbitrator George Nicolau’ pilot seniority award was issued. The award was written with the assistance of two ALPA pilot "neutrals", Steve Gillen United Airlines Pilot and Jim Brucia former Continental pilot now United Airlines Pilot.


"In recognition of their efforts it has not been an easy task, I
could not conclude this Opinion without thanking Captain Brucia and
Captain Gillen for their immeasurable guidance and assistance."

George Nicolau

Arbiter of the ill fated "Nicolau award".

 

[Reed Richards]

I paid my dues and lived up to my obligation in a more timely manner than USAPA has.

Remind me to show you my Section 29 letter.

Where I went to school quibbling was the same as lying. You are an admitted dues deadbeat, and bragged about it here. You are really something else. RR

 

[Claxon]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSHkU_DIK9oXLHwxNqEoLn-1NvD87zIN5ZmqJPc-iwUT7uXRgyO

 

[traderjake]

Where I went to school quibbling was the same as lying. You are an admitted dues deadbeat, and bragged about it here. You are really something else. RR

Where I went to school reneging on a mutually agreed upon arbitration process makes you a liar and a thief.

 

[luvthe9]

Where I went to school reneging on a mutually agreed upon arbitration process makes you a liar and a thief.

Where I work changing bargaining agents without getting a JCBA with an arbitration is a perfectly legal and acceptable procedure. A procedure upheld by the courts of the USA.

 

[traderjake]

Legal maybe, acceptable absolutely not.

In the mean time enjoy LOA 93, you're getting what you deserve.

 

[luvthe9]

Let's cut to the chase.

Your side plays all kind of word games which boil down to finding a legal hole to slip through to avoid a previous agreement.

Pretty much it, and as you said, legal. Marty tries all the time to find that hole but comes up short.

 

[Phoenix]

Where I went to school reneging on a mutually agreed upon arbitration process makes you a liar and a thief.

You brag about not paying dues. You are proud to be called guilty. None of your co-workers have even accepted your accusations of being a liar and a thief. Prove it. 🙂 Web rants that beg the question are as effective as the hamster wheel. 😀

 

[traderjake]

None of your co-workers have even accepted your accusations of being a liar and a thief.

Not true, I flown with many Captains that agree with my accusations about what USAPA has done.

 

[flyer63]

CAL list is out. longevity does matter...

Furloughs were not stapled. Only ones that don't get it are the west!