August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Phoenix]

You aren't on the famous CB53 ignore? What's wrong with you?

I have egged him to do so. He would risk looking like a puppet now.

 

[Reed Richards]

On several occasions she has pulled Shite out of the air.

How about the one where she ask Pat why he had not had negotiations with the West Class, as supposedly ordered? That was a senior moment if I ever saw one. Maybe that stuff happens all the time in the courts. RR

 

[Pi brat]

I have egged him to do so. He would risk looking like a puppet now.

Bet he is steaming. I can say that since he ignores me. ;-)

 

[traderjake]

Yes, thanks to weak d**ks like you that voted for LOA93 and this POS MOU.

You sure like to grouse.

 

[luvthe9]

[font=Arial"]Agree about LOA 93, we were our own worst enemy. I disagree with your MOU assessment, but note you should be very happy. It’s as if that MOU never happened. It simply is dead with the merger being over. RR[/font]

Sorry, the MOU sucks but the desperate voted for it, I did not and now what's funny is no one will admit voting for it just like LOA93. Except Traitor, he's proud of it.

 

[Phoenix]

How about the one where she ask Pat why he had not had negotiations with the West Class, as supposedly ordered? That was a senior moment if I ever saw one. Maybe that stuff happens all the time in the courts. RR

Yeah, that was a serious mystery. Was it really a big blunder or was she trying to shock the parties into settlement? That blunder didn't really hurt much as far as I can see and I don't think she subjected herself to any spankings from on high....

But her flat denial of the necessity of "immediate and direct harm" for ripeness, and jurisdiction... sheez. I simply don't see how she saves face on this one. :blink:

 

[luvthe9]

You sure like to grouse.

Love grouse hunting, they sit there till you right up on them.

 

[Freighterguynow]

I guess I'm not since I stooped to his level, but I should be. Thanks for the reminder. Sometimes we need it from those we respect.

Thanks, but as the man said:
"I'd never join a club that would have a person like me as a member"

 

[USA320Pilot]

USAPA unilaterally raised pilot dues from 1.95% to 2.45% per the C&[background=transparent]BLs[/background]. With the merger put on hold should the union drop pilot dues back to the highest rate in the industry of 1.95% and if the merger proceeds then increase pilot dues, if necessary? Or should the lowest paid legacy airline pilots pay industry leading dues to support the [background=transparent]BPR's[/background] actions and union lifestyle?

 

[Phoenix]

....Current events continue to blur the logic of her decisions. ...

Yet unfolding events help to magnify the wisdom of the 9th who properly identified the erroneous "implicit assumption" of the dissent (and of Wake and anyone else who ventures to meddle).

Without an implicit assumption that USAPA must use the Nic, there is simply no way to demonstrate that negotiating something else is necessarily harmful to anyone.

If there is no immediate and direct harm prior to negotiations truly being complete (i.e. at an effective date of an MOU/JCBA/WhaterverContract.... then there is no factual harm in negotiating apart from the previous negotiating position.

I.e. simply put, negotiating is merely evidence of negotiating. It is not evidence of harm.

The West has all the risk, and with every passing day the wide range of reasonableness has more real life examples. 😀

 

[Phoenix]

USAPA unilaterally raised pilot dues from 1.95% to 2.45% per the C&[background=transparent]BLs[/background]. With the merger put on hold should the union drop pilot dues back to the highest rate in the industry of 1.95% and if the merger proceeds then increase pilot dues, if necessary? Or should the lowest paid legacy airline pilots pay industry leading dues to support the [background=transparent]BPR's[/background] actions and union lifestyle?

Is that a lecture posed as a question? 🙂

 

[Claxon]

Specifically, which west FO could have displaced an east FO WB position on which bid in 2007?

On 9/27/2005 there was a merger event between UA/HP that created an unmistakable career expectation for certain west pilots that transitioning to a FO/CO WB position was a distinct possibility based on the integration of the two companies and the two seniority lists. If HP standalone had acquired a WB aircraft and service to a location that made proper use of a WB, then the most senior west pilots would have expected to be the ones to fly it since no one was senior to them on a stand-alone basis. With the merger came WB positions which solidified the possibility. The only thing that would have prevented a west pilot from having a WB opportunity would be a SLI that specifically prevented that opportunity from being realized for west pilots. No dount that's what the east desired and no doubt the west did not. Then two years later with the two sides not agreeing on a solution other than to go to binding arbitration, the SLI award was issued which answered the question as to if a west pilot would have that WB opportunity or not.If you are in the top 1% for seniority of all pilots at your company, why would you have any expectation other than to be able to select the aircraft type, bases and routes in the company? The expectation was created on 9/27/2005 which means it would not be a windfall for a very senior west pilot to take a WB position in 2007 or 2008.

Relative position for SLI purposes is a one-time snapshot that becomes meaningless as the dynamic variables are constantly changing. NIC took a snapshot of the lists at the merger and slotted everyone on the list into a new, combined list. From that point on comparing relative positions against the static snapshot is an apples to oranges comparison. One day you could be in the fiftieth percentile and the next day a wave of furloughs happens and suddenly you are in the twentieth percentile or whatever. What really matters is that once the slotting occurs each person on the list goes up or down the the list right next to the guy one position above and right next to the person one position below. Unless one or both of those guy's exits the list, they will be there until the next merger or until you yourself exit the list. All three will have a chance to upgrade at roughly the same time. A west pilot certainly does not move up the list faster than the east guy above or below him.

"Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,
IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose. This judgment is binding on the
following class: “All pilots employed by US Airways in September 2008 who were on the
America West seniority list on September 20, 2005.”
DATED this 4th day of December, 2012.

Judge Silver

 

[Claxon]

No logic or fact involved in your whining.

You are a hypocrite, and make your arguments very poorly.

For example, you would like me to prove you could have had parity, a reasonable assumption being that negotiations were taking place, yet, you also vehemently deny that Parker said without the merger US was cho.7 and done.

There is no "windfall" in the Nic, another of your baseless claims, yet you claim it as fact. The fact is you are a whining malcontent who has lost all credibility and will never be trusted by any pilot outside the east's uscaba camp.

"Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,
IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose. This judgment is binding on the
following class: “All pilots employed by US Airways in September 2008 who were on the
America West seniority list on September 20, 2005.”
DATED this 4th day of December, 2012."

Judge Silver

 

[Claxon]

I see nothing funny about the situation that you and USAPA-faithful have created. Nothing.

"Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,
IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose. This judgment is binding on the
following class: “All pilots employed by US Airways in September 2008 who were on the
America West seniority list on September 20, 2005.”
DATED this 4th day of December, 2012."

Judge Silver

 

[Claxon]

USAPA unilaterally raised pilot dues from 1.95% to 2.45% per the C&[background=transparent]BLs[/background]. With the merger put on hold should the union drop pilot dues back to the highest rate in the industry of 1.95% and if the merger proceeds then increase pilot dues, if necessary? Or should the lowest paid legacy airline pilots pay industry leading dues to support the [background=transparent]BPR's[/background] actions and union lifestyle?

Your comments please sir.


"Pursuant to the Court’s resolution of the motions for summary judgment,
IT IS ORDERED Counts I and III of the complaint are dismissed and judgment is
entered in favor of US Airline Pilots Association on Count II of the complaint. US Airline
Pilots Association’s seniority proposal does not breach its duty of fair representation
provided it is supported by a legitimate union purpose. This judgment is binding on the
following class: “All pilots employed by US Airways in September 2008 who were on the
America West seniority list on September 20, 2005.”
DATED this 4th day of December, 2012."

Judge Silver