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August 2013 Pilot Discussion

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Why would I have to go into hiding because I now portend the merger is toast? I am stunned you all continue to pull errata out of the media and deem this merger a go. I am not seeing it. And I am not asking anyone to buy stock, much less do anything different than they have been doing since the second BK here. I owe no penance for having a logical (and I do not say righteous or even correct) opinion. That said, if the merger were to go through, and I was actually paid my retrospective pay and the signing bonus, and my 1 Jan 14 pay rate was acknowledged by the Company, I would never be seen here again, under any name or avatar. In fact, I would see no need to even visit this site ever again. And my rear, even though very bendable due to my powers, would still be smarting having had all those monkeys fly out of it. Bad visual, I digress. We actually will both be here debating for years. It will be the little fun we have in this job other than when the parking brake is off. RR

RR,

There can also be fun with the parking brake set. On the few occasions where I had to make a point by leaving the parking brake set and leaving the aircraft with my bags turned out to be fun (looking back on it). It is absolutely amazing what can get accomplished in a short period of time if you properly motivate others. I wish I had taken videos of the activity!

All the best,

Bob
 
The MOU however, may very well be in jeopardy. Read sections 18, 20 and most important section 30, the last section of the MOU. The BK judge has the final say. If the POR needs to be restructured as a result of concessions to the government, you can kiss the 'contract' we ratified goodbye.

'84

I agree. In addition if the merger goes through the company will "interpret" the "contract" to the point where you will need a large team of lawyers to figure out whether or not it IS a contract.

All the best,

Bob
 
My daddy did give me one thing and I am proud of it.

I'm taller than you and always will be. :lol:

My Dad gave me something also. I'm shorter that most pilots. I get to laugh when the tall guys bump their heads! If you go to Sterling castle you will find a dent in one of the beams from a collision with a tall pilot. When I fall down I don't have far to fall. And when I "accidently" bump into a good looking tall woman...........

All the best,

Bob
 
I agree. In addition if the merger goes through the company will "interpret" the "contract" to the point where you will need a large team of lawyers to figure out whether or not it IS a contract.

All the best,

Bob

Morning Bob. I had serious questions about the MOU from the first day, which is why I voted no on the last day. I didn't harbor any illusions about millions left on the table, it was mainly the language and the concessions. However, I was looking forward to the day when I no longer had to refer to myself as a spiney plant.

'84
 
Since we are all just playing airline analyst lets take stock (no pun intended) of where we are. This past week the period of exclusivity was extended to Jan 18, 2014. The company attorneys requested documents which would explain the rationale behind the previously approved mergers. The government has been reluctant to comply. Some of the feedback from the attendees to D.C. last week, second hand I'll admit, is that Delta's fingerprints are all over this effort to kill or cripple this merger.

Add to the above the more proximate trial date granted as well as the choice of holding the trial during the week of a major holiday and my intuition tells me the judge is pre-disposed to seeing a settlement. Meanwhile the actual stock has recovered what it lost when the DOJ made their opening salvo, indicating investors remain bullish on the merger. Also in the last month, insiders have been buying the stock.

Finally, step back from all this anecdotal 'errata' and consider the old adage of 'follow the money'. Consider what stakeholders such as Boeing, Airbus, Embraer, UCC and the AA labor groups stand to lose if the merger fails. Money walks.

Out of an abundance of caution, I am not prepared to say this merger is dead.

'84
AH, YES 84!, But voters vote, grandma's tickets to visit the grandchildren will go up, less flights to get on and synergy means job loss, those people vote! How many job losses going to happen in this merger? Anyone care to guess? what is even more hilarious in a tragic kind of way is people advocating this consolidation, are going to be finding themselves in the unemployment line! The DOJ has changed their MERGER METRIC( just like alpa changing its merger policy, imagine that) . Those illusive DOCS aint going to help DUI DOUG one bit, I think ye ole super hero nailed it right on! ''Recession is when your neighbor loses his job. Depression is when you lose yours. And recovery is when DUI DOUG loses his!
 
Read it and cry me a Wye river. Keep blaming others for your stupid, ignorant and misguided information you gave to your fellow west pilots. You are not a victim, you are the perpetuator. You are living in your own feces, do not blame anyone else.

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2008/35n020.pdf

This one is pretty telling. The statements about who bought who is very clear, as was the surrender of the West operating certificate and ownership at the final transaction. Nic4US is telling many falsehoods. (Page 68 Nic4 ) try refuting an NMB document.


Enjoyed the class discussion. Pretty clear nobody is carving out a West class inside this union. It just will not be allowed. Per the NMB
 
AH, YES 84!, But voters vote, grandma's tickets to visit the grandchildren will go up, less flights to get on and synergy means job loss, those people vote! How many job losses going to happen in this merger? Anyone care to guess? what is even more hilarious in a tragic kind of way is people advocating this consolidation, are going to be finding themselves in the unemployment line! The DOJ has changed their MERGER METRIC( just like alpa changing its merger policy, imagine that) . Those illusive DOCS aint going to help DUI DOUG one bit, I think ye ole super hero nailed it right on! ''Recession is when your neighbor loses his job. Depression is when you lose yours. And recovery is when DUI DOUG loses his!

Remember that Grandma's tickets was the argument used in PIT. And our response was, 'but hey grandma, you can fly anywhere in the world from PIT'. Look at PIT today, very sad. The moral being be careful what you wish for.

And superhero made mention of alleged documents sans proof. He was speaking about union depositions, but the caution applies to the anti trust lawsuit as well.
 
AH, YES 84!, But voters vote, grandma's tickets to visit the grandchildren will go up, less flights to get on and synergy means job loss, those people vote! How many job losses going to happen in this merger? Anyone care to guess? what is even more hilarious in a tragic kind of way is people advocating this consolidation, are going to be finding themselves in the unemployment line! The DOJ has changed their MERGER METRIC( just like alpa changing its merger policy, imagine that) . Those illusive DOCS aint going to help DUI DOUG one bit, I think ye ole super hero nailed it right on! ''Recession is when your neighbor loses his job. Depression is when you lose yours. And recovery is when DUI DOUG loses his!

Do the numbers on total employee head count between DAL and LCC and AMR totaled. The DOJ is looking at that one. There is no way Parker can compete with that head count being so far over DAL and the others. All anyone cares about in this admin are the job numbers, and this merger goes against them. They could care less about the wheels coming off in 4 yrs down the road.
 
You're a very angry little man. 😀

I will say this, you and the West posters cannot come close to the data Claxon posts, nowhere near. And it is simply their own videos that piss them off beyond belief.
The data posts are NMB documents, ALPA and Leonidas documents. Yet you guys simply try and refute the facts by calling someone angry or medicated or whatever suits you when you have no argument. Keep them coming, especially the fat lady singer.
 
Do the numbers on total employee head count between DAL and LCC and AMR totaled. The DOJ is looking at that one. There is no way Parker can compete with that head count being so far over DAL and the others. All anyone cares about in this admin are the job numbers, and this merger goes against them. They could care less about the wheels coming off in 4 yrs down the road.

The New American has a significant deficit in its Asian operation vis a vis the other goliaths. Filling that gap organically could mitigate job cuts. Labor groups also vote and are very concerned with preserving jobs. I think the labor groups have made their position quite clear.
 
Morning Bob. I had serious questions about the MOU from the first day, which is why I voted no on the last day.

'84
You voted no, are you out of your mind Hummel told us how great this was, funny I ask around, can't find anybody that admits they voted for it kind of like LOA93, what a group of pants wetters.
 
You voted no, are you out of your mind Hummel told us how great this was, funny I ask around, can't find anybody that admits they voted for it kind of like LOA93, what a group of pants wetters.

Calling them pants wetters doesn't help. The BPR, despite their asides, endorsed the MOU as well. Those reps that saw merit in the MOU followed their convictions, those that thought it was crap, but ended up endorsing it are the ones you should accuse of wetting their pants.
 
And superhero made mention of alleged documents sans proof. He was speaking about union depositions, but the caution applies to the anti trust lawsuit as well.


1984, the existence of transcripts from depositions from both sides over the last two weeks is FACT, not alleged. The issue is would the West Class, and even an apparently disgruntled (but well intentioned) East Class pilot come on a public forum and discuss the content of said depositions? Really? But then again, it was a "leaked" deposition transcript that did Paula Dean in. RR
 
RR,

There can also be fun with the parking brake set. On the few occasions where I had to make a point by leaving the parking brake set and leaving the aircraft with my bags turned out to be fun (looking back on it). It is absolutely amazing what can get accomplished in a short period of time if you properly motivate others. I wish I had taken videos of the activity!

All the best,

Bob

Agreed. And to be clear, there were also some good times having left the aircraft on layovers, but that is subject for another forum! RR
 
The MOU however, may very well be in jeopardy. Read sections 18, 20 and most important section 30, the last section of the MOU. The BK judge has the final say. If the POR needs to be restructured as a result of concessions to the government, you can kiss the 'contract' we ratified goodbye.

'84

First, thanks for using the word "we" even though you did not vote for the MOU. You are one of the few participating CLT pilots in our union. And especially thanks for voting either way, it indeed was a very personal decision. If the POR is restructured, as you opine, would you rather go into new negotiations with the MOU or LOA 93 as our last bargaining product? Could we recapture the gains of the MOU in a new agreement, could we get improvements? Big maybe. But being an armchair member of the NAC I would sure as heck rather be in the room with the MOU looming than just taunts and bravado as to what we "deserve." The MOU set a benchmark for a point in time. Things may change, but in the end the MOU could at least be a reference point for “where we were.” RR
 
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