August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Pi brat]

Anyone care to speculate how a government shutdown would affect the courts in general and the three litigations which affect us in particular (DOJ, DJ, Addington)?

It will give the DOJ a legitimate reason for the delay they want.

 

[electricjet98]

For attempting to claim you're "not bitter or trying to be accusing", you sure seem ready to push the "pay parity" button as the reason that west pilots are the ones to blame in all of this. Once again let me remind you...the east's decision to not participate in JNC negotiations predated the west's resistance to pay parity...a mutually agreed to item that would be included in JNC negotiations. As for "hard lines in the sand" and someone being "forced into submission"...that also predated our resistance to pay parity with the fledgling USAPA's rallying cry of east pilot's majority status as uniquely qualifying them to dictate the value of our seniority and imposing it on us. THAT, my history challenged friend, is where the train went off the tracks!

Wrong, my friend. Yes, those things predated your stance against parity. However, the withdrawal by the JNC was in response to the West pilots not being willing to accept anything other than the NIC, and obviously it didn't have to end up being DOH. But you guys were blinded by the NIC. At that time, it was still an internal union problem that could have moved forward if parties would have been willing to talk things out. When you guys told the company that you would be OUTRAGED if the East pilots were given parity, that opened a whole new can of worms, legally. It also got the company involved and the screwing began. That can of worms was a dream come true for a union busting management. That is where the train left the tracks.

You whine about "talking things out" yet you endorse the east withdrawing from negotiations...it was not and is not the west that was and still is, blinded. Had the east used any reasoning in their decision and actually wanted to negotiate anything regarding the NIC, they would have remained active in JNC negotiations with the three parties to the Transition Agreement actively participating. But no...you didn't want to negotiate anything. You chose to take the ball and go home, continue the USAPA organizing effort and then use your immoral-majority status to impose your vision of an SLI. Had you remained in JNC negotiations and worked toward a JCBA Agreement and then proceeded to vote it down on the east side...the west would have been forced to concede some provisions...negotiation VS. imposition. But no...you ELECTED to drive the train of the tracks by withdrawing from negotiations...where "talking things out" happens.

 

[Piedmont1984]

It will give the DOJ a legitimate reason for the delay they want.

Funding for the DOJ action is in jeopardy. Where does this case rank among the DOJ's other cases? If the judge says no delay (assuming she has the authority) will the Baer team blink?

Then there is the debt ceiling next. That could trigger recession for the economy and depression for the airlines. AA/LCC could argue that the merger is now necessary for survival. All arguments about bullish standalone prospects out the window.

 

[mrbreeze]

You whine about "talking things out" yet you endorse the east withdrawing from negotiations...it was not and is not the west that was and still is, blinded. Had the east used any reasoning in their decision and actually wanted to negotiate anything regarding the NIC, they would have remained active in JNC negotiations with the three parties to the Transition Agreement actively participating. But no...you didn't want to negotiate anything. You chose to take the ball and go home, continue the USAPA organizing effort and then use your immoral-majority status to impose your vision of an SLI. Had you remained in JNC negotiations and worked toward a JCBA Agreement and then proceeded to vote it down on the east side...the west would have been forced to concede some provisions...negotiation VS. imposition. But no...you ELECTED to drive the train of the tracks by withdrawing from negotiations...where "talking things out" happens.

We will just have to disagree on this point. I have stated my opinion and have nothing more to say. breeze

 

[Piedmont1984]

You whine about "talking things out" yet you endorse the east withdrawing from negotiations...it was not and is not the west that was and still is, blinded. Had the east used any reasoning in their decision and actually wanted to negotiate anything regarding the NIC, they would have remained active in JNC negotiations with the three parties to the Transition Agreement actively participating. But no...you didn't want to negotiate anything. You chose to take the ball and go home, continue the USAPA organizing effort and then use your immoral-majority status to impose your vision of an SLI. Had you remained in JNC negotiations and worked toward a JCBA Agreement and then proceeded to vote it down on the east side...the west would have been forced to concede some provisions...negotiation VS. imposition. But no...you ELECTED to drive the train of the tracks by withdrawing from negotiations...where "talking things out" happens.

What exact vision of SLI has been imposed? Have you heard something? Did I miss the breaking news?

 

[electricjet98]

We will just have to disagree on this point. I have stated my opinion and have nothing more to say. breeze

Yup...just what the east MEC said as they took the ball and went home.

 

[electricjet98]

What exact vision of SLI has been imposed? Have you heard something? Did I miss the breaking news?

Not from the lack of effort and funding abilities by east pilots.

 

[Phoenix]

You whine about "talking things out" yet you endorse the east withdrawing from negotiations...it was not and is not the west that was and still is, blinded. Had the east used any reasoning in their decision and actually wanted to negotiate anything regarding the NIC, they would have remained active in JNC negotiations with the three parties to the Transition Agreement actively participating. But no...you didn't want to negotiate anything. You chose to take the ball and go home, continue the USAPA organizing effort and then use your immoral-majority status to impose your vision of an SLI. Had you remained in JNC negotiations and worked toward a JCBA Agreement and then proceeded to vote it down on the east side...the west would have been forced to concede some provisions...negotiation VS. imposition. But no...you ELECTED to drive the train of the tracks by withdrawing from negotiations...where "talking things out" happens.

I always get a laugh when folks in the minority accuse the one's negotiating of being guilty of negotiating in a way the minority doesn't like. Its proof positive that disagreement about USAPA's negotiating strategy or position is merely an internal union matter.

 

[electricjet98]

I always get a laugh when folks in the minority accuse the one's negotiating of being guilty of negotiating in a way the minority doesn't like. Its proof positive that disagreement about USAPA's negotiating strategy or position is merely an internal union matter.

Until shown that the immoral-majority led union is guilty of failure to fairly represent the minority. It's called DFR...look it up!

 

[Phoenix]

Until shown that the immoral-majority led union is guilty of failure to fairly represent the minority. It's called DFR...look it up!

Are speculating about hypothetical outcomes again about contingent events?

 

[nevergiveup]

You whine about "talking things out" yet you endorse the east withdrawing from negotiations...it was not and is not the west that was and still is, blinded. Had the east used any reasoning in their decision and actually wanted to negotiate anything regarding the NIC, they would have remained active in JNC negotiations with the three parties to the Transition Agreement actively participating. But no...you didn't want to negotiate anything. You chose to take the ball and go home, continue the USAPA organizing effort and then use your immoral-majority status to impose your vision of an SLI. Had you remained in JNC negotiations and worked toward a JCBA Agreement and then proceeded to vote it down on the east side...the west would have been forced to concede some provisions...negotiation VS. imposition. But no...you ELECTED to drive the train of the tracks by withdrawing from negotiations...where "talking things out" happens.

The east votes in a sub-standard contract and give their careers away at the same time. Not happening. Parker would never pay what the east would require to accept the NIC.

 

[electricjet98]

The east votes in a sub-standard contract and give their careers away at the same time. Not happening. Parker would never pay what the east would require to accept the NIC.

I considered suggesting that a minority in the east thought that if a decent contract containing the Nic was voted upon by the east, it would be ratified...and that was why USAPA has continued to "shoot-for-the-moon" resulting in nothing for the pilots to even consider (with the exception of the MOU that was primarily a product of APA). I considered suggesting it...but knew some eastie would deny that possibility. Thanks for confirming the thought without my suggesting it!

 

[nevergiveup]

I considered suggesting that a minority in the east thought that if a decent contract containing the Nic was voted upon by the east, it would be ratified...and that was why USAPA has continued to "shoot-for-the-moon" resulting in nothing for the pilots to even consider (with the exception of the MOU that was primarily a product of APA). I considered suggesting it...but knew some eastie would deny that possibility. Thanks for confirming the thought without my suggesting it!

5?,100?,800? With the merger, it is all pointless. How about those Steelers!

 

[electricjet98]

How about those Steelers!

They lost!

 

[Freighterguynow]

You whine about "talking things out" yet YOU endorse the WEST withdrawing from WYE RIVER negotiations...it was not and is not the EAST that was and still is, blinded. Had the WEST used any reasoning in their decision and actually wanted to negotiate anything regarding the NIC, they would have remained active in JNC negotiations with the three parties to the Transition Agreement actively participating. But no...YOU didn't want to negotiate anything. You chose to take the ball and go home, continue the ALPA organizing

There, fixed it for ya.

Sorry not to bow down to our West overlords as you demanded - it's been almost 7 (seven) years.

There's your contract vote plus a couple more for good measure.