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AWA ALPA Thread 11/11 to 11/17

end_of_alpa said:
Without an t/a there is no transition agreement.
Click to expand...
I do believe you're wrong - there hasn't been a "t/a" (I assume you mean for a joint contract) at any point since the merger became official, so in your world there's never been a valid transition agreement. The transition agreement contains no expiration date, being valid until there's a ratified joint contract.

Jim
 
From: GarlandJo@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:58 AM
To: U-Boston-Pilots@yahoogroups.com
Subject: My Thoughts on USAPA
BOS Pilots,

I'm not a USAPA supporter, and here's why. Except for the rhetoric, I have yet to hear
the strategy that USAPA intends to use...

1. In successfully defending against the DFR lawsuit against USAPA that 1700 West
pilots plan to immediately file in Federal Court over USAPA's refusal to accept the
Nicolau award as the means of integrating the two seniority lists (and in this lawsuit,
ALPA National itself will undoubtedly be testifying that ALPA merger policy was
indeed followed, a huge advantage for the West).

The legal consensus is that the Nicolau award will follow this AAA/AWA pilot group
even with a new bargaining agent, and that the problems your MEC is dealing with
today will be the same problems that USAPA will have to deal with (indeed, USAPA
will not be bound by past ALPA merger policy, but that only pertains to future
mergers, not this one).

2. In running a Union with 1700 of its members refusing to pay dues, assessments, or
participating in any Union activities, including contract negotiations, picketing, or
committee work. Never happen? Better ask yourself this...what would the East pilots
do if this was being done to them by the West?

So what would West pilots do for representation? I'll tell you what I'd do...I'd tell
Parker that the 1700 pilots out West don't recognize USAPA as their bargaining agent,
will not participate in USAPA affairs, and if Parker wants to continue running a West
operation he'll need to deal directly with a delegation selected by the West pilots
themselves (Closed shop? What's Parker going to do, fire 1700 pilots?)

3. In securing an agreement with Parker for permanent DOH merger protection for all
future mergers with 1700 of its members in total rebellion. Moreover, these contactual
"prenups" mean nothing if the future merge partner refuses to recognize them, with
yet another arbitration as the only likely solution.

4. In securing an agreement with Parker for a new contract with, again, 1700 of its
members in an outright civil war. What is USAPA going to do after we reach an NMB
recognized impasse in our next contract negotiations. Strike? Run that scenario by
the West pilots! Parker will whipsaw the East against the West with a vengeance, and
laugh at our weakness (he already is, and he'll only laugh more).

5. In raising enough money to run this new Union. With 1700 West pilots refusing to
pay dues, how long do you think the East pilots are going to put up with assessment after assessment just to cover the ongoing Union bills, not to mention the price of
lawyers and their support staff .

-----------------------

So what's the alternative? Got to tell you, there's no easy answer, and running away
from the fight that your MEC is fighting right now in the hopes that there's a promised
land out there somewhere is a pipe dream that I'm just not buying into.

Contrary to popular opinion, once the cards are dropped, the AAA leverage created by
the USAPA threat starts to diminish. Counterintuitive, I know, but there it is anyway
(eventually, all parties simply wait for the outcome, instead of looking for solutions).

Finally, if there's an election, and ALPA wins, it will be crippled by the pilots on the
East with the same energy that USAPA will be crippled by the West pilots. In short, a
Frankenstein is about to be created, and when it is it will be out of control.

With respect for all that the USAPA supporters wish to accomplish,

Garland
 
EastUS said:
"spin job"? You've completely missed the point of any posted notions of mine then. I find both local sections of Alpo, and the corrupt, and bloated entity as a whole, to be equally contemptable. if you've some fantastic notions that the MEC out west's any less of a politicized body of self serving Alpo inepts than found elsewhere.....you're paying insufficient attention.

PS: If you've not the innocence and naievete of a newborn....you've simply got to be joking if you think that whatever might transpire at this next magic non "arm twisting" meeting/harrumph fest is "Prater free"....just because your boy's claiming such.
Click to expand...

Alot of what you say above I see no need to argue with, there is politikin over all aspects of this, no doubt. I only meant to say that not showing up for Prater's extracurricular waste of a session is not the same as not showing up for a JNC session. Both parties are bound by the JNC, but not by the Rice/Prater bull snort.
 
ableoneable said:
From: GarlandJo@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 11:58 AM
To: U-Boston-Pilots@yahoogroups.com
Subject: My Thoughts on USAPA
BOS Pilots,
With respect for all that the USAPA supporters wish to accomplish,

Garland
Click to expand...

Garland cannot be a USAPA supporter, and retain his position as rep.

This nothing more than a Commie party loyalty letter.

Until his personal motivations are clear, reading anything into this likely is a waste of time.
 
Contrary to popular opinion, once the cards are dropped, the AAA leverage created by
the USAPA threat starts to diminish. Counterintuitive, I know, but there it is anyway
(eventually, all parties simply wait for the outcome, instead of looking for solutions).


I disagree. ALPA has lost 2 organization attempts in the past 6 months (or so). Now they face outright rejection by 3000 AAA pilots. I think this will light the proverbial fire under the derrière .....
 
Freighterguynow said:
Contrary to popular opinion, once the cards are dropped, the AAA leverage created by
the USAPA threat starts to diminish. Counterintuitive, I know, but there it is anyway
(eventually, all parties simply wait for the outcome, instead of looking for solutions).


I disagree. ALPA has lost 2 organization attempts in the past 6 months (or so). Now they face outright rejection by 3000 AAA pilots. I think this will light the proverbial fire under the derrière .....
Click to expand...
Even the regional guys have seen the light. PS:When was the last time a legacy carrier appeared on the cover of ALPA Magazine?
 
Does anyone know when the last time a "legacy" passenger carrier with ALPA representation had a representational election? The results?

The only one I know of is American, and we all know that turned out to be a resounding success.
 
AAA73Pilot said:
No he can't. I know what you're going to say, and he still can't.
Click to expand...

Yes, he can.

You guys really need to consider that the law firm you are using has lost most drives than they've won.

Nic won't go away with a change of representation. The west group needs to independently ratify any joint contract (thanks to the transition agreement). The language in the transition agreement specifically references ALPA merger policy. USAPA is stuck with the transition agreement.

And yes, Garland could absolutely win a DFR lawsuit. There is no legal reason to prohibit him from running for union office that would hold in court.

All this effort, but you won't get a DOH integration with either HP or any future merger victi, err, partner airlines. Not gonna happen.
 
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