Begging management for concessions

[Ardenian]

Way back during the LOA 93 negotiations, a certain LGA pilot sent out a message far and wide begging pilots to e-mail US Airways management to ask for the right to vote on accepting their latest tremendously concessionary proposal.

Now someone talks tough!

Go Figure!

"To: [email protected] ; [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 11:35
Subject: [LGA135] Call to action

Dear Fellow Pilot:

There is nothing we can do about the past, but there are two things we can do about the future.
Email Bruce Lakefield, Jim Schear, Bruce Ashby, and Jerry Glass that we want this company to surive and we are willing to vote on the company’s last proposal. Their email addresses are:

[email protected],[email protected],james_schear@u
airways.com, [email protected]

Email Duane Woerth that he needs to intervene and ask him to send out the company’s last contract offer to the pilot's for membership ratification. Duane’s email address is [email protected].

Both of these points are very important and it’s up to us to lead a grass roots effort to convince these men the pilot’s want this airline to survive.

Please take this action today! I can not express how important it is do do this now.

Respectfully,
Captain deleted by moderator

 

[hp_fa]

Now that was interesting.

Of course now that pilot will come on here and complain that someone took a message off another private message board and printed it here. Of course if that pilot did so complain that pilot would be admitting the truth of the message.

 

[PITbull]

Geezus.

No wonder the company knew they had the pilots. This type of crap that went out by an individual pilot. I am sure he sent this message to the Execs as well, circumventing the ALPA MEC process and supportng the action for the company to send out the last proposal. :down:

Just simply repulsive from weak, scared individual that sent these kinds of signals and messages directly or indirectly to the Company; literally crippling the MEC.

 

[USA320Pilot]

The issue is that the ALPA PA Representatives by over 50 “roll call†votes controlled negotiations and turned down repeated offers by the Company. In fact, the first offer was for the America West pilot contract with JetBlue work rules and interestingly the ALPA JNC is fighting for the America West contract today.

It's to bad the PA Representatives did not listen to the advisors and accept this agreement long ago so the pilots were not hurt so bad. In fact, as reader’s of this board know, at first ALPA’s advisor’s told the MEC to make an offer of about 85% to 90% of the company’s “askâ€, which is about the current America West contract, and they might accept the deal early in the process. Then every ALPA International Official and every ALPA Financial and Legal advisor told the MEC that each time the company made an offer the PA Representatives rejected it by “roll call†the next deal got worse, which happened and as time went on an LOA 93 was obtained by Doug Mowrey and the RC4’s Negotiating Committee, the company was near liquidation.

In fact, PitBull recently indicated that the advisor’s told union officials that every offer from the company would get worse-and-worse this on this message board. The ALPA PA Representatives and people like F/A Teddy Xidas, who many believe is a true moron, kept saying “no†as if they had any leverage negotiating with a twice bankruptcy company that was operating on a loan from the government to stay in business.

Today Northwest’s Flight Attendants represented by the AFA reached a TA. There approach is the sentiment shared by over 50% of US Airways’ rank-and-file pilot’s who voted for LOA 93.

In fact according to the AP, "With the airline in bankruptcy, this deal was always going to be about survival," said Mollie Reiley, interim president of the Northwest branch of the union.

"We left no stone unturned and we have made a significant difference together, but this is not a day that we celebrate. We have an agreement that will give flight attendants hope for the future and one that allows us to fight another day."

Danny Campbell, interim vice president of the Northwest branch of the Association of Flight Attendants, said a quick vote was in the flight attendants' best interests.

"We need to move on with trying to get the company out of bankruptcy so we can put up a good battle in the future for getting back some of the things we gave up," he said.

It’s stupid to say an individual was “beggin management for concessionsâ€. It’s more like trying to keep the company in business to fight another day after all of the stupid moves by the RC4 and their supporters.

To suggest otherwise is emotional and nonsense.

In conclusion, nobody likes concessions and I believe that the ALPA MEC, via “roll call†should have agreed with the advisors and first countered the company’s offer and if they did not accept then limit the pilot’s damage by accepting the company’s next offer. I would have listened to the advice of the advisor’s, which would have provided the pilot’s with less cuts in pay and benefits.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[hp_fa]

The ALPA PA Representatives and people like F/A Teddy Xidas, who many believe is a true moron, kept saying “noâ€￾ as if they had any leverage negotiating with a twice bankruptcy company that was operating on a loan from the government to stay in business.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Let's make this perfectly clear. If I had to make any bet whatsoever on who was a moron I would choose USA320Pilot over Teddy Xidas in less then a heartbeat. No contest.

 

[ClueByFour]

It's tough to negotiate when you have rank and file pilots urging the "bendover and take it" type actions.

I'm guessing that PITBull has a bit more credibility on this than other posters here, few if any of which have held elected union-MEC office (being a proxy runner, BTW, does not apply).

 

[TheLarkAscending]

Nice betrayal! Why not just endorse your entire paycheck over to them and work for friggin' free? What a complete and total :wacko:

 

[Ardenian]

This opinion just came in to my computer:

"It's to bad the PA Representatives did not listen to the advisors and accept this agreement long ago so the pilots were not hurt so bad. In fact, as reader’s of this board know, at first ALPA’s advisor’s told the MEC to make an offer of about 85% to 90% of the company’s “askâ€, which is about the current America West contract, and they might accept the deal early in the process."

Actually, Ashby dismissed any attempt by the NC to hit the 85%-90% number. He told the NC “You need a deal, and I know it.â€
Where would he have gotten such an idea? Certainly not from a certain Chicken Little in LGA begging management for the right to accept whatever they shoved across the table and the CLT check airman parading his daughter around with a sign saying “Let my Daddy Vote.â€

Little men that fear the loss of their jobs above all else are management’s favorite kinds of union members.

By the way, it’s TOO bad, not to bad. The same applies to the READER'S of this board. Have the writer get his grammar straight. Any local High School should have some students available to tutor him. The person who wrote this is obviously uneducated.

"Then every ALPA International Official and every ALPA Financial and Legal advisor told the MEC that each time the company made an offer the PA Representatives rejected it by “roll call†the next deal got worse, which happened and as time went on an LOA 93 was obtained by Doug Mowrey and the RC4’s Negotiating Committee, the company was near liquidation."

ALPA National does not want to expend resources in any scenario that involves risk. They are completely ‘risk-averse.’ ALPA National’s advisors DO NOT EVER support standing up to management. Their mantra is, “Get it done, and get it done cheaply.†They meter is running.

As for “near liquidation,†give us a break. Did he get that from the Chicken Little CLT FO rep that claimed to have been invited to a secret meeting where certain liquidation was discussed?

"In fact, PitBull recently indicated that the advisor’s told union officials that every offer from the company would get worse-and-worse this on this message board."

See above.

"I would have listened to the advice of the advisor’s, which would have provided the pilot’s with less cuts in pay and benefits."

I wonder if this writer wants to listen to the ALPA advisors now, as they attempt to expend as few resources as possible while continuing to counsel the AAA MEC to take the path of least resistance with management during the current negotiations. Remember, these are the same advisors that crafted the current “Transition Agreement†that is so completely full of loopholes that Doug and Jerry are using it to continue to damage the US Airways pilot group daily.

Damage? What about the recent public statements by the BOS FO rep?

Whoever wrote this obviously has his head either in the sand or somewhere else.

One last thing, will someone explain to this buffoon the difference between plural and possessive. Maybe they didn’t offer English in his High School.

 

[N924PS]

Let's make this perfectly clear. If I had to make any bet whatsoever on who was a moron I would choose USA320Pilot over Teddy Xidas in less then a heartbeat. No contest.

It's also perfectly clear that if Teddy had been the ALPA MEC Chairman the USAirways pilots would have been better represented by a true leader.

It was weak individuals such as our famous pilot poster (poster child for the aforementioned) and the Give Away Gang that brought the pathetic working agreement to the USAirways pilots.

He continues to spin the same old, well worn arguments in a feeble effort to rationalize his behavior and weak kneed existence.

It is this type of individual that will allow Jerrold Glass to continue his dominance of the USAirways (East) pilots and keep them the lowest paid, minimal benefit, flying sheep of the industry. And laugh all the way to his bank at the likes of that certain pilot poster for his good fortune.

 

[delldude]

I must guess when faced with the issue of going to the right seat....one may let emotions fog good intentions....

 

[PITbull]

In fact, PitBull recently indicated that the advisor’s told union officials that every offer from the company would get worse-and-worse this on this message board. The ALPA PA Representatives and people like F/A Teddy Xidas, who many believe is a true moron, kept saying “noâ€￾ as if they had any leverage negotiating with a twice bankruptcy company that was operating on a loan from the government to stay in business.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Hey A320,

If you are going to allege that I wrote something in reference to the above on this board, please find the quote or apologize for misquoting me.

Our advisors never told us what you are alleging. AFA came in at $93 million instead of the company's original number of $116 million. (excluding pension which we never gave to the company but got terminated by the judge) Once our pensions were terminated AFTER our ratification on Jan. 5th, the judge acepted the company's motion and terminated both AFA and IAM pensions on Jan. 10 (which we suspected the judge would do) and abrogated the IAM contract on the same day.

Bruce A. had no choice but to accept the $93 million, cause we weren't getting to the $116 million. We knew it, he knew it,and Jerry G knew it. We had threatend to vehemently push for a no vote if they attempted to exstract one more cent.

 

[john john]

told union officials that every offer from the company would get worse-and-worse this on this message board.
Regards,

USA320Pilot [/font]

Customer service agent’s negotiations got better during the end of bankruptcy ll due to the leverage of the strike vote. One person writing an editorial targeting the customer service agent’s to the Charlotte paper hampered bankruptcy l. Helping management win a vote that only pass by 5 votes

 

[AWAtoUStoOutside]

By the way, it’s TOO bad, not to bad. The same applies to the READER'S of this board. Have the writer get his grammar straight. Any local High School should have some students available to tutor him. The person who wrote this is obviously uneducated.

Hey there, Board people! Just thought I'd join to point out that if Ardenian lives in a glass house, he ought to put the rocks down. Thanks for the "educated" response, BUT, it would be READERS, not READER'S. No possesive....And I didn't even pay attention in school ;-)

Also, I think we should all be able to agree that those were not the most fun of times. It appears that you had two very different opinions on what was best for the greater good of the pilots. I can't say I fault either side in their approach. At least they acted when they felt compelled. Looking back from a West perspective, I don't envy the position these folks were in.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Three points:

On Sepetember 6 the US Airways MEC by a "roll call" vote rejected the company's offer.

Then on September 10 at a Special MEC meeting in PIT, with US Airways A320 Captian Chip Munn a voting MEC member holding Leo Guerrero's proxy, the union received the Company's next proposal. This proposal was dramatically worse than the one rejected 4 days earlier and even contained an option for the airline to furlough pilot's out of seniority.

The MEC went into closed session and there was a heated debate about the RC4's decision to once again vote via "roll call" against every ALPA International official's, every financial advisor, every legal advisor, every MEC officer, and 2/3 of the MEC's advice.

Then 2 days later on September 12 the post that started this topic was written. Why? This was an attempt to stop the madness and the ALPA contract offers getting worse-and-worse, which the Advisor's predicted would happen and did why the RC4 controlled ALPA.

Then a few month's later the RC'4s hand-picked Negotiating Committee became the first MEC in the history of ALPA to provide the company a concession greater than the comapny's "ask".

Who was in charge of the MEC when the TA was reached? The RC4 or line pilot's?

Moreover, everyboyd knew that the majority of the pilot's wanted to cut a deal with the company to limit the damage per the advisor's counsel. That point was made loud and clear on this message board, on the ALPA message board, different Yahoogroups, and at the MEC meetings, which furing LOA 91, LOA 92, and LOA 93 discussions I attended virtually every meeting.

In regard to Teddy Xidas, the dictionary describes the word moron as "a stupid person - a dolt". I did not try to insult Xidas, just post what many people believe is an accurate adjective of her performance. I find it interesting that Xidas and other's can regularly insult other's and when one thing is said that some believe is accurate about her she and other's take offense. How can that be? Interesting...

Finally, to suggest anybody begged to take a concession is stupid and instead actions were taken to limit the concessions because of the advisor's recommendation(s).

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[hp_fa]

Then on September 10 at a Special MEC meeting in PIT, with US Airways A320 Captian Chip Munn a voting MEC member holding Leo Guerrero's proxy, the union received the Company's next proposal.

USA320Pilot, shouldn't that read that :censored:, an ALPA member, held the proxy of a voting MEC member and attended the meeting in his place? Wording it the same way you did makes it look like this Captain Chip Munn guy really was a full member of the MEC.

BTW, the "a" precedes the "i" in Captain.