Boeing cutting 2000 HR and Finance jobs.

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Here’s some more interesting information. There were 14 people in your group who transferred to Title 2. So if you had 100 people that’s 14% of that group. So it wasn’t just the two Union officials after all.

On top of that it was the Bankruptcy Judge Sean Lane who imposed the terms on both AMT’s and Stores when they voted no (2 out of 7 groups) It also sounds like from reading that the rest of your group were offered options although it’s likely those options wouldn’t have been very good with others in Fleet across the system facing their own cuts. (Displacement/Bumping/Filing of vacancies)

I’m filing in a lot of blanks with some simple Google searches (Sam Cirri TWU Local 514)

View attachment 17300

I am fully aware he put out this letter. In fact the reason he put the letter out is because of a post I made (the blue text at the bottom of this post) on Jan 2, 2013 on this very forum. If you doubt that look at the dates. He posted his letter 2 days later. The blog he is talking about is this forum website.

You have to read between the lines WeAAsles. Though knowing what happened the last night at TULE is the "Rosetta Stone" that allows you to do that.

Focus on these parts.

"Fourteen title II positions were awarded, including myself, Debbie Tiller and other Fleet Service Clerks"

"We tried to get the company to complete this prior to the Fleet Service RIF date and also asked the Company to delay their report date by a month"

That goes back to the last day I was talking about at TULE. Management informed the clerks they were awarded those jobs and given a report date then turned right around and called them the very same day and told them to report to their new positions and they would have to submit an out of station transfer. That's the part Cirri conveniently left out of his letter.

This is not something I am just making up and adjusting to push a narrative WeAAsles. Look back at the post I made on Jan 2, 2013 (which is the reason Cirri posted that letter to begin with). My story has not changed in 10 years.

How would you feel if you were awarded a position, given a report date, then called back the same day and told now you have to put in an out of station transfer? Especially when you had more seniority than one of the TWU officers that was awarded the job? Do you see the problem here?

BREAKING NEWS!!! BREAKING NEWS !!!
TWU Local 514 President and Chairman of Fleet Service
Pull off the best scam of Local 514 and Tulsa Base

Alright everybody I hope this gets your attention and action. Over the base closure a well put together plan played out for Sam Cirri and Debbie Tiller to be awarded jobs at the Tulsa Base in Title II as plant maintenance mechanics. As most of you know by now that Fleet Service duties were reassigned to Title I OSM. Sam and Debbie both being FSC's at the base were laid off on Dec 14th, 2012. They chose and were awarded to displace a less junior employee at DFW. This was the last day of the Fleet Service dept at TULE. Somehow out of 130+ employees these two were the only ones awarded positions even though others with more seniority also qualified. The word on the floor is that somehow they stayed as an in station employee on the transfer list after Dec 14, because Sam had requested that they be paid by the local under UBC. All the others that qualified were offered jobs on their last day in Tulsa and told to report to Plant Maintenance on Dec 17th.
Late on Friday night Dec 14th those other employees were called back by the supervisor and told to go to DFW, their awarded city in the RIF. They now have to transfer back as out of station while Sam and Debbie remain in station even though Fleet is gone and she has less seniority than the other person that qualified for painter, the position Debbie was awarded during base closure. Sam got electronics. Remember people, Sam and Debbie both bumped someone out of their jobs in DFW, causing someone to either hit the street or relocate their family. Total BS from the local President and Chairman of Fleet. Everyone should protest this. They hoped to slide this in while everyone was gone during base closure. Call the local and international and let them know this is wrong and that Sam and Debbie should be ask to step down and have the transfers voided. Great leaders our local 514. Another black eye for the TWU ! Go AMFA !!!

 

[CorvetteMan]

I disagree with that statement.

Overnight cleaning was basically wiping the aircraft down, vacuuming, restocking, and straightening/replacing the literature.

In fleet service we did a deep clean of the aircraft. Scrubbed the bins, scrubbed the floors in the galley, cleaned out trash chutes, cleaned the air vents behind the side walls in the 757, deep cleaned the ovens, and we completely destocked/restocked the aircraft. We also changed entire shipsets of rugs and upholstery, even in the cockpit. It was far more involved than what they do during overnight cleaning.

We also dumped the lavs and defueled/refueled the aircraft, even at the airport.

That’s typical line cleaning. SCO

 

[WeAAsles]

I am fully aware he put out this letter. In fact the reason he put the letter out is because of a post I made (the blue text at the bottom of this post) on Jan 2, 2013 on this very forum. If you doubt that look at the dates. He posted his letter 2 days later. The blog he is talking about is this forum website.

You have to read between the lines WeAAsles. Though knowing what happened the last night at TULE is the "Rosetta Stone" that allows you to do that.

Focus on these parts.

"Fourteen title II positions were awarded, including myself, Debbie Tiller and other Fleet Service Clerks"

"We tried to get the company to complete this prior to the Fleet Service RIF date and also asked the Company to delay their report date by a month"

That goes back to the last day I was talking about at TULE. Management informed the clerks they were awarded those jobs and given a report date then turned right around and called them the very same day and told them to report to their new positions and they would have to submit an out of station transfer. That's the part Cirri conveniently left out of his letter.

This is not something I am just making up and adjusting to push a narrative WeAAsles. Look back at the post I made on Jan 2, 2013 (which is the reason Cirri posted that letter to begin with). My story has not changed in 10 years.

How would you feel if you were awarded a position, given a report date, then called back the same day and told now you have to put in an out of station transfer? Especially when you had more seniority than one of the TWU officers that was awarded the job? Do you see the problem here?

BREAKING NEWS!!! BREAKING NEWS !!!
TWU Local 514 President and Chairman of Fleet Service
Pull off the best scam of Local 514 and Tulsa Base

Alright everybody I hope this gets your attention and action. Over the base closure a well put together plan played out for Sam Cirri and Debbie Tiller to be awarded jobs at the Tulsa Base in Title II as plant maintenance mechanics. As most of you know by now that Fleet Service duties were reassigned to Title I OSM. Sam and Debbie both being FSC's at the base were laid off on Dec 14th, 2012. They chose and were awarded to displace a less junior employee at DFW. This was the last day of the Fleet Service dept at TULE. Somehow out of 130+ employees these two were the only ones awarded positions even though others with more seniority also qualified. The word on the floor is that somehow they stayed as an in station employee on the transfer list after Dec 14, because Sam had requested that they be paid by the local under UBC. All the others that qualified were offered jobs on their last day in Tulsa and told to report to Plant Maintenance on Dec 17th.
Late on Friday night Dec 14th those other employees were called back by the supervisor and told to go to DFW, their awarded city in the RIF. They now have to transfer back as out of station while Sam and Debbie remain in station even though Fleet is gone and she has less seniority than the other person that qualified for painter, the position Debbie was awarded during base closure. Sam got electronics. Remember people, Sam and Debbie both bumped someone out of their jobs in DFW, causing someone to either hit the street or relocate their family. Total BS from the local President and Chairman of Fleet. Everyone should protest this. They hoped to slide this in while everyone was gone during base closure. Call the local and international and let them know this is wrong and that Sam and Debbie should be ask to step down and have the transfers voided. Great leaders our local 514. Another black eye for the TWU ! Go AMFA !!!

Ok yes in their classifications they would have to pick to be awarded and how I read your letter they were awarded DFW. As far as reporting that’s a different matter since they were elected officers of Local 514. No they would not have to report until they were no longer in those elected positions. And yes they would have had to go under UB since the positions they formerly held in TULE no longer existed.

From there the question is did they ever report to DFW after they had lost in the next election and/or during that time had they transferred back or accepted recall to TUL? Were there others during that time that came back to TUL as OSM’s or FMT’s after formerly being FSC’s?

BTW before the Bankruptcy contracts went into effect the Company paid for all 5 elected officers in every Local to be off the manning and paid UB (Full salaries) After the Bankruptcy that went down to just the President being paid. Their Officer stipends however are paid by the memberships that they represent. Now there is a set number in each Union besides the Presidents that the company pays for with the JCBA’s.

Again let me reiterate though neither Sam or Debbie would have needed to report to DFW until they were no longer TWU Local 514 Elected officials.

From Debbie Tiller obituary:

“Debbie had been with us here in Tulsa 1990, starting as a Fleet Service Clerk, and in 2013, due to AA removing Fleet Service from the Tulsa Base, Debbie took a job as a Cleaner, then bid into Facilities Maintenance as a Mechanic. Debbie had also served as the Chairman of Fleet Service for Local 514”

Debbie as the Chairwoman of Fleet Service if Fleet Service was no longer in TULE should have reported to her awarded Station DFW, unless instead as I read it she went and took a job as a Cleaner instead? I’m assuming that to be a downgrade from her former FSC position.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes from reading the current payscales for Cleaners it’s almost a $5.00 per hour drop from TOS of a FSC.

La Li it looks to me like Sister Tiller did not do anything wrong. You may have believed she was awarded DFW but unless she herself showed you that you never would have known where she was awarded. Edit: Cirri may never have put in or been awarded DFW either. From his own letter it doesn’t sound like it.

Again reading her obituary Debbie Tiller dropped down to cleaner and did not option to transfer/bump to DFW.

 

[WeAAsles]

I am fully aware he put out this letter. In fact the reason he put the letter out is because of a post I made (the blue text at the bottom of this post) on Jan 2, 2013 on this very forum. If you doubt that look at the dates. He posted his letter 2 days later. The blog he is talking about is this forum website.

You have to read between the lines WeAAsles. Though knowing what happened the last night at TULE is the "Rosetta Stone" that allows you to do that.

Focus on these parts.

"Fourteen title II positions were awarded, including myself, Debbie Tiller and other Fleet Service Clerks"

"We tried to get the company to complete this prior to the Fleet Service RIF date and also asked the Company to delay their report date by a month"

That goes back to the last day I was talking about at TULE. Management informed the clerks they were awarded those jobs and given a report date then turned right around and called them the very same day and told them to report to their new positions and they would have to submit an out of station transfer. That's the part Cirri conveniently left out of his letter.

This is not something I am just making up and adjusting to push a narrative WeAAsles. Look back at the post I made on Jan 2, 2013 (which is the reason Cirri posted that letter to begin with). My story has not changed in 10 years.

How would you feel if you were awarded a position, given a report date, then called back the same day and told now you have to put in an out of station transfer? Especially when you had more seniority than one of the TWU officers that was awarded the job? Do you see the problem here?

BREAKING NEWS!!! BREAKING NEWS !!!
TWU Local 514 President and Chairman of Fleet Service
Pull off the best scam of Local 514 and Tulsa Base

Alright everybody I hope this gets your attention and action. Over the base closure a well put together plan played out for Sam Cirri and Debbie Tiller to be awarded jobs at the Tulsa Base in Title II as plant maintenance mechanics. As most of you know by now that Fleet Service duties were reassigned to Title I OSM. Sam and Debbie both being FSC's at the base were laid off on Dec 14th, 2012. They chose and were awarded to displace a less junior employee at DFW. This was the last day of the Fleet Service dept at TULE. Somehow out of 130+ employees these two were the only ones awarded positions even though others with more seniority also qualified. The word on the floor is that somehow they stayed as an in station employee on the transfer list after Dec 14, because Sam had requested that they be paid by the local under UBC. All the others that qualified were offered jobs on their last day in Tulsa and told to report to Plant Maintenance on Dec 17th.
Late on Friday night Dec 14th those other employees were called back by the supervisor and told to go to DFW, their awarded city in the RIF. They now have to transfer back as out of station while Sam and Debbie remain in station even though Fleet is gone and she has less seniority than the other person that qualified for painter, the position Debbie was awarded during base closure. Sam got electronics. Remember people, Sam and Debbie both bumped someone out of their jobs in DFW, causing someone to either hit the street or relocate their family. Total BS from the local President and Chairman of Fleet. Everyone should protest this. They hoped to slide this in while everyone was gone during base closure. Call the local and international and let them know this is wrong and that Sam and Debbie should be ask to step down and have the transfers voided. Great leaders our local 514. Another black eye for the TWU ! Go AMFA !!!

A few more thoughts. You claim in your writing from the past that they were the only 2 awarded which in Brother Cirri’s letter states that’s not true and there were 14 people who remained in TULE. Apparently Sam went to FMT and Debbie went to Cleaner. Now as members Sam was under no obligation to provide any information for where he went but as the Local President it’s definitely a better idea than not.

Second you claim to know where everyone went and I have to call BS on that. After 9/11/01 I got my walking papers from DFW and chose to bump someone out of LGA. No one except people I told knew I was bumping back to LGA and I was recalled to DFW only a Month and a Half later. Then again in 2003 I was laid off and chose to bump to MIA. Again nobody outside of Management knew my business and they recalled me back to DFW 6 Months later which I declined.

So my “guess” is people went all over. Some stayed in TULE, some transferred to openings, some bumped others out and some took the street.

In other words I think at the time going through what you were going through you speculated in your own mind where everyone was going and what their choices were. And you were looking for someone to throw rocks at and Cirri and Tiller became your targets. And 10 years later they’re still your targets but one is now in the grave.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Ok yes in their classifications they would have to pick to be awarded and how I read your letter they were awarded DFW. As far as reporting that’s a different matter since they were elected officers of Local 514. No they would not have to report until they were no longer in those elected positions. And yes they would have had to go under UB since the positions they formerly held in TULE no longer existed.

From there the question is did they ever report to DFW after they had lost in the next election and/or during that time had they transferred back or accepted recall to TUL? Were there others during that time that came back to TUL as OSM’s or FMT’s after formerly being FSC’s?

BTW before the Bankruptcy contracts went into effect the Company paid for all 5 elected officers in every Local to be off the manning and paid UB (Full salaries) After the Bankruptcy that went down to just the President being paid. Their Officer stipends however are paid by the memberships that they represent. Now there is a set number in each Union besides the Presidents that the company pays for with the JCBA’s.

Again let me reiterate though neither Sam or Debbie would have needed to report to DFW until they were no longer TWU Local 514 Elected officials.

From Debbie Tiller obituary:

“Debbie had been with us here in Tulsa 1990, starting as a Fleet Service Clerk, and in 2013, due to AA removing Fleet Service from the Tulsa Base, Debbie took a job as a Cleaner, then bid into Facilities Maintenance as a Mechanic. Debbie had also served as the Chairman of Fleet Service for Local 514”

Debbie as the Chairwoman of Fleet Service if Fleet Service was no longer in TULE should have reported to her awarded Station DFW, unless instead as I read it she went and took a job as a Cleaner instead? I’m assuming that to be a downgrade from her former FSC position.

Cleaner in TULE refers to Aircraft Cleaner, which is Title 1. The same classification as A&P mechanics.

Fleet Service cleaned the interior, Aircraft Cleaners cleaned the exterior.

They used to buff the aircraft exterior before the aircraft were painted and also washed the aircraft.

Debbie was awarded painter. Another employee who had more seniority (one of the 14) and was also qualified as a painter was awarded that job as well. However the other employee was called that day and told to report to his new station. Of course he grieved it so that resulted in Debbi's offer being revoked as well (optics). She hung out at the base under UB (despite the fact there were no Fleet Service Clerks to represent) until paperwork could be pushed through for her new position, which I assume is the cleaner position she was actually awarded.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

A few more thoughts. You claim in your writing from the past that they were the only 2 awarded which in Brother Cirri’s letter states that’s not true and there were 14 people who remained in TULE. Apparently Sam went to FMT and Debbie went to Cleaner. Now as members Sam was under no obligation to provide any information for where he went but as the Local President it’s definitely a better idea than not.

Second you claim to know where everyone went and I have to call BS on that. After 9/11/01 I got my walking papers from DFW and chose to bump someone out of LGA. No one except people I told knew I was bumping back to LGA and I was recalled to DFW only a Month and a Half later. Then again in 2003 I was laid off and chose to bump to MIA. Again nobody outside of Management knew my business and they recalled me back to DFW 6 Months later which I declined.

So my “guess” is people went all over. Some stayed in TULE, some transferred to openings, some bumped others out and some took the street.

In other words I think at the time going through what you were going through you speculated in your own mind where everyone was going and what their choices were. And you were looking for someone to throw rocks at and Cirri and Tiller became your targets. And 10 years later they’re still your targets but one is now in the grave.

I don't know where people bumped or even if they bumped WeAAsles.

I only said he was told to report to his "new station".

I only know where 1 person actually bumped. And yes that was DFW.

Yes those 14 were "awarded" but you seem to be missing on some information I posted.

"Fourteen title II positions were awarded, including myself, Debbie Tiller and other Fleet Service Clerks"

"We tried to get the company to complete this prior to the Fleet Service RIF date and also asked the Company to delay their report date by a month"

They now have to transfer back as out of station while Sam and Debbie remain in station even though Fleet is gone and she has less seniority than the other person that qualified for painter, the position Debbie was awarded during base closure.

They may have been awarded those positions but they didn't "STICK". They were told to report to their new positions then told any transfer would have to be an out of station transfer.

The only reason Tiller's was revoked was because a grievance was filed. She got to hang about on UB while management "cleaned up the mess" despite the fact there were no Fleet Service Clerks for the Fleet Service Chairman to represent.

 

[WeAAsles]

Cleaner in TULE refers to Aircraft Cleaner, which is Title 1. The same classification as A&P mechanics.

Fleet Service cleaned the interior, Aircraft Cleaners cleaned the exterior.

They used to buff the aircraft exterior before the aircraft were painted and also washed the aircraft.

Debbie was awarded painter. Another employee who had more seniority (one of the 14) and was also qualified as a painter was awarded that job as well. However the other employee was called that day and told to report to his new station. Of course he grieved it so that resulted in Debbi's offer being revoked as well (optics). She hung out at the base under UB (despite the fact there were no Fleet Service Clerks to represent) until paperwork could be pushed through for her new position, which I assume is the cleaner position she was actually awarded.

I don't know where people bumped or even if they bumped WeAAsles.

I only said he was told to report to his "new station".

I only know where 1 person actually bumped. And yes that was DFW.

Yes those 14 were "awarded" but you seem to be missing on some information I posted.


They may have been awarded those positions but they didn't "STICK". They were told to report to their new positions then told any transfer would have to be an out of station transfer.

The only reason Tiller's was revoked was because a grievance was filed. She got to hang about on UB while management "cleaned up the mess" despite the fact there were no Fleet Service Clerks for the Fleet Service Chairman to represent.

Ok and now the lady is dead. A few people who I feel wronged me over the years are also dead.

May they all Rest In Peace…..

 

[eolesen]

I disagree with that statement.

Overnight cleaning was basically wiping the aircraft down, vacuuming, restocking, and straightening/replacing the literature.

In fleet service we did a deep clean of the aircraft. Scrubbed the bins, scrubbed the floors in the galley, cleaned out trash chutes, cleaned the air vents behind the side walls in the 757, deep cleaned the ovens, and we completely destocked/restocked the aircraft. We also changed entire shipsets of rugs and upholstery, even in the cockpit. It was far more involved than what they do during overnight cleaning.

We also dumped the lavs and defueled/refueled the aircraft, even at the airport.

You can disagree, but I did all the workload scheduling and BOW assignments systemwide. TULE did nothing special. You described what was considered a periodic (30 day) cleaning plus carpet and upholstery for line stations . The only differences being you did during daylight hours what the hubs did in the graveyard shift, and the upholstery/carpet jobs were sometimes done separately because time on the ground didn't allow enough time to get that all done in one pass (there are only so many bodies you can throw at a single aisle airplane....).

 

[WeAAsles]

You can disagree, but I did all the workload scheduling and BOW assignments systemwide. TULE did nothing special. You described what was considered a periodic (30 day) cleaning plus carpet and upholstery for line stations . The only differences being you did during daylight hours what the hubs did in the graveyard shift, and the upholstery/carpet jobs were sometimes done separately because time on the ground didn't allow enough time to get that all done in one pass (there are only so many bodies you can throw at a single aisle airplane....).

Back in LGA they called it an ultra clean. One crew would get one plane to work for the night where the other teams would do 4 or 5 flights for a basic cleaning. A team that hustled could get an ultra clean done in about 4 hours and be done for the night. Ripping up and replacing all the seat covers and carpets was some intense work. When I got laid off back to LGA in 2001 I did one ☝️ ultra clean the month and a half I was there. I was asked if I wanted to try it and I said sure. 1 time was enough for me.

Can’t believe anyone would even want to do that job for 12 years. 🤮

 

[Kev3188]

What does “BOW” stand for?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

You can disagree, but I did all the workload scheduling and BOW assignments systemwide. TULE did nothing special. You described what was considered a periodic (30 day) cleaning plus carpet and upholstery for line stations . The only differences being you did during daylight hours what the hubs did in the graveyard shift, and the upholstery/carpet jobs were sometimes done separately because time on the ground didn't allow enough time to get that all done in one pass (there are only so many bodies you can throw at a single aisle airplane....).

Well we had a crew for overnight cleaning at TUL as well. We did up to 5 aircraft a night. It certainly was not a deep clean. Maybe other stations are different I don't know.

Nights at TUL consisted of lit, seat belts, wiping down/stocking the lav/galley, removing trash, vacuuming, and wiping down the windshield.

TULE went a lot further than that.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Ok and now the lady is dead. A few people who I feel wronged me over the years are also dead.

May they all Rest In Peace…..

Yet the consequences of her scam live on.

She certainly created a legacy.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Back in LGA they called it an ultra clean. One crew would get one plane to work for the night where the other teams would do 4 or 5 flights for a basic cleaning. A team that hustled could get an ultra clean done in about 4 hours and be done for the night. Ripping up and replacing all the seat covers and carpets was some intense work. When I got laid off back to LGA in 2001 I did one ☝️ ultra clean the month and a half I was there. I was asked if I wanted to try it and I said sure. 1 time was enough for me.

Can’t believe anyone would even want to do that job for 12 years. 🤮

Well at TULE we had 2 shifts and 3 days for a "Light C"

So it was not all that bad.

A few people got hurt pulling rugs and tape over the years. Mostly it was a pretty chill job though.

 

[WeAAsles]

Well we had a crew for overnight cleaning at TUL as well. We did up to 5 aircraft a night. It certainly was not a deep clean. Maybe other stations are different I don't know.

Nights at TUL consisted of lit, seat belts, wiping down/stocking the lav/galley, removing trash, vacuuming, and wiping down the windshield.

TULE went a lot further than that.

E is right. They did the same job you did at LGA and I’m sure many other stations. So no your job was not special or exclusive.

Yet the consequences of her scam live on.

She certainly created a legacy.

Give me a break man. I’m thinking maybe the lady turned you down for a date or something now. Or you’re just sick in the head?

Seek help.