Bonuses Inflame Air Unions

[delldude]

Bob, "These" execs did not get our company where it is today. A combo of greedy union leadership and shotty management beginning with Uncle Ed is the reason we are where we are!!!

[post="269163"][/post]​

uh dude or whatever.....your statement of greedy union leadership....ahh the unions only got what the company was willing to give them...so stick that in your pipe and smoke it....
stick with the shoddy managment and no direction since ed and you'll be on target.
or haven't you learned anything on these boards?
or are you just another company mouthpiece?

 

[libertybell]

Who was the queen that said let them eat cake? Seems like the same type of people are running this company. Does anyone still have a soul in management or did all sell or lease that out as well to the devil?


Anyone think the bankruptcy judge has been already bought off?

 

[700UW]

Bob, "These" execs did not get our company where it is today. A combo of greedy union leadership and shotty management beginning with Uncle Ed is the reason we are where we are!!!

[post="269163"][/post]​

Wrong again there bucko, did the unions do the following?

Colodny’s Blunders:

· Mirror Image, imposing US Air’s business methods upon Piedmont and PSA, instead of looking at each respective airline and adapting their successful practices. Some examples would be dismantling of the Piedmont Shuttle which accounted for 32% of Piedmont’s Gross Revenue.

· Not furthering International Service and canceling the last three 767s on order from Boeing, then realizing how much money was made serving international destinations and paying Boeing a $30 million penalty to reorder the three planes.

Schofield’s Blunders:

· Business select, $50 million on wasted seats that never worked properly and we eventually removed from the 737-200 fleet. Operation Highground.

· The IAM Mechanic and Related Strike of 1992 in which US Air lost $35 million and agreeing to pay all the pilots during our strike regardless if they flew or not.

· The hiring of Joe Gorman from United Airlines. Gorman stayed a few months then went right back to United, then United started taking us on head to head in numerous markets where we did not compete before Gorman’s tenure.

· The alliance with British Airways to infuse quick cash, but not on favorable terms to US Air, BA got more out of the alliance then we did.

Wolf and Gangwal:

· Canceling all the Boeing orders and having to pay a substantial penalty to Boeing to this day the dollar amount is not known as it was a confidential out of court settlement after Boeing sued US Airways, but it is believed to be hundreds of millions of dollars.

· Closing of three maintenance bases and trying to accomplish all the work in just three bases, which caused a backlog of airplanes awaiting “Q†and “C†checks and Mod visits. At one point you could see numerous airplanes parked in Charlotte, Pittsburgh and Tampa awaiting maintenance.

· Buying back over $1.5 billon of US Airways stock instead of using the money as operating capital or paying down debt or just having it around for a downturn.

· Selling the company to United Airlines and then for the next 14 months having no direction and running the company into the ground.

· Overreacting to the September 11th tragedy and shrinking the airline by 23% and increasing costs by putting larger airplanes on shorter routes.

And that does not even count what Siegel did!

 

[High Iron]

I am speaking about the majority of unionized labor at UsAirways. 95% of them don't have a higher level education, otherwise they wouldnt be slinging bags for a living. I worked at Airways while I was still in school (fulltime both) and now guess what I dont have to do that crap anymore and let them dictate my life for me. Do you think it was easy to work fulltime and go to college fulltime, no? What has happned is a tragedy but you gotta move on and stop blaming the other guy, do what YOU have to do to survive.

[post="269051"][/post]​

In other words, capitulate?

Many of those that seem to support this sort of malfeasance, or more accurately, attempt to rationalize it....explain it away, seem to fall into the "appeal to common practice" fallacy. The new robber-baron korporate (sic) figure seems to be in vogue today, but not because of some spontaneous creation or all-overpowering supernatural force, but due to their own ( admittedly adroit ) actions to put themselves in that position, also being aided by apathy/inaction of employees en-masse. "Well, that's just the way it is, so.....". Well no. That's not "just the way it is"; It's the way it was made to be. They saw the opportunity and they took it, and were further embolded by previous rank-and-file capitulation, and it just snowballed.

Talking points/questions:

- Why didn't they try this all-out assault sooner? I mean, it was undoubtably an abstract but visceral aspiration of many "captains of industry" kept in check because they felt the time wasn't right. Of course they knew incrementalism was the key. The question is just when.

- If all this was naturally occuring in the business world, free-markets and all that jazz...Why the lobbying? H1 visas...."guest workers"...overtime law "reform" etc. That, and the use of the courts. Hellooo Chapter 11. Weren't the conditions previous to the present just as naturally occuring? ( in the last 100+ years anyhow ) Ya gotta' wonder.

- As far as executive largesse: Short of internet forums ( or the occasional op-ed ), why hasn't there been any sort of clinical comparison between the theory supporting it...and the reality of their actual performance? Or what about the transferrable skills angle; "Group XYZ are demigods that can write their own ticket anywhere, so we must entice them to remain, as they can earn more elsewhere" Really? Proof please. Why are they still here? Plenty of corporate bootlickers on this BB regularly trot out the "if you don't like it, quit!" mantra. Perhaps they should direct this to those whom they don't look down their noses at. Why is it assumed anyone who is paid by the hour is the polar opposite? Sounds like the mirror-reverse of "class-envy"....class contempt? As many others have astutely noticed, the good-old-boys club is alive and well...especially since they sign their own checks. How about a little even analysis? It's almost as if argument is bad decorum.

 

[whlinder]

So my question is: If the company is it such dire straights that it has to close clubs then where is there money available for retention bonuses?

[post="269190"][/post]​

Lets see, clubs closed, does the company shut down? No. (I know you think the lost revenue from the club members booking away and getting refunds hurts US, and it does, but it doesn't shut the place down, at least not immediately)

If everyone with a clue leaves CCY, does the company shut down? I'll let you tell me. Seigel already said that after BBB left there was no one to run the company. I don't think the senior execs deserve a dime, but you can only lose so many people. US can't seem to lose the right people (Crellin) and loses plenty low-level good people.

 

[PITbull]

USfliboi,

Kiss you jumpseat and who is sitting next to you. It is the employees that saved this company, and your job along with the execs jobs.

 

[delldude]

like i said before...for any greed to be had by any union the company first must have
agreed to the conditions..... 😉

 

[MarkMyWords]

qwerty -

Excellent post. The "lower level" management types are always getting lumped in with the executives in these types of discussions and I am glad you took the opportunity to point that out. Just as every union employee was offered the ability to sever from the company with severance pay, these people need to be afforded the same opportunities to either retain their services or thank them for a job well done when they are forced out through the merger.

When we look at the figure of the 18 million for the top 25 executives of the company.....I say no way in hell! Using the excuse that this is what is done in the business world during mergers and bankruptcies is total bull feathers. How many executives of failing companies are rewarded for pawning the problems off to someone else to fix? If the executive team ahd fixed the problems and returned the company to profitabilty and operational excellence, then I would be less opposed to the payoff. But to pay off executives for the operational and financial mess that we are in is just ridiculous.

How could any of the executives, in good conscious, accept that money knowing they didn't fix the problems here, they just moved the problems on to a different management team. The inherent problems of the entity, US Airways, will not change just because someone else bought the pig. There will still be huge obsticles to overcome. On merger day I would be happy to come to CCY and hand each executive a box, have them escorted to their desks (to clean them out), pat them on the back and say - sorry bub....we're going to have to let you go. The same type of scenario that has been played out over and over for nearly 25,000 other employees.

If there is such a drive to recruit the "executive talent" of US Airways, then why are any of them still here? What was the big payoff of staying with US? (besides the million + in severance/bonuses) My take on it is that they really aren't being recruited or they would be gone. I mean really.....can you imagine what would be on someone like MPA's resume?

Executive VP of Customer Service and Operations.

Unable to achieve any of my performance goals.
Brought Customer Service levels down as low as possible.
Lost millions of dollars by being the only person that didn't know that there was going to be a holiday melt down due to staffing issues.

well, you get the idea.

LibertyBell said, "Anyone think the bankruptcy judge has been already bought off?"

Hmmm, if this passes through the bankruptcy court with the judges approval as written, then I think I know where that discretionary 5 million dollars is going!

I understand the philosophy of retaining talent......and there is a lot of talent here to save, I just don't think a lot of it is at the top of the food chain. The first thing I would do if I were the bankruptcy judge would be to remove the 18 million for the executives with a big red NO FRICKEN WAY!

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

I've agreed to with Bob and Art and have posted various vents on this elsewhere so I'll abstain at this time. I'm having a hard enough time just dealing with the fact Art, Bob, and I agree.

But I would suggest, to Art and Bob, that actions speak louder than words.

No, I don't expect to see either on the turd brown bus. KC and I would save you guys a seat, but you've made it clear you can't deal with the horror of an unassigned seat. That's okay.

But the time has arrived for you to take your money and business elsewhere.

If not now, at what point is the "final straw"?

You and FFOCUS have been lied to, used as pawns, and I do mean used.

The employees have been lied to. The employees have seen their wages eviscerated. The goal was not, is not, has never been about saving this airline. The goal has been to slash the wages so they can merge it or sell it but there was never any desire on their (mgmts) part to save it.

My gut feeling is that continuing to send the crowd at CCY your money only serves to encourage them. You continue under the guise of trying to do something for the good employees. That briefs well, and actually is a noble intent, but the bottom line is your money is getting held up somewhere between the time you spend it and the time the employees draw their meager paycheck.

The money is flowing into the pockets of no good management.

Not finding another carrier NOW is simply rewarding them.

 

[calibrator]

In other words, capitulate?

Many of those that seem to support this sort of malfeasance

[post="269187"][/post]​

This not only includes executives but what used to be "OUR" government that is surly taking everything away from "we the people" with judges overruling what people voted for, corporations taking away everyone’s jobs and replacing them with slave labor, a government bent on globalization which is eliminating the middle class and making the wealthy insanely wealthier. It’s all happening as sure as "Iron" here stated while we all sit back and watch and do absolutely nothing, like we are drugged and in a stupor unable to respond to the death grip placed around our collective throats. The haves and the have nots are only concerned about "theirs" and if they have "theirs" then screw that poor bastard next door who is working three low paying jobs to support his family. Then we have the feeble-minded remarks on here blasting unions and blaming them, the one and only true ally of working men and women. I said it before and I’ll say it again: sociocultural factors acting on such non thinking individuals conditions such negative behavioral patterns to accept the unacceptable. Send our nation’s raw resources to China so they can bury us goes the mentality while we fast become a third world economy, what force is causing this? “Pure Evil†with most not grasping this reality and that’s why it’s so pervasive.

 

[MarkMyWords]

Cher's back again!

 

[calibrator]

Cher's back again!

[post="269248"][/post]​

Look into the mirror quietly and intensely and absorb feelings of disgust and repulsion that is placed upon the soul of a fool.

 

[Art at ISP]

ELP,

I am also in amazement that we seem to agree--and in this case it's not a bad thing!!!

As far as taking business elsewhere, the process has begun. I have an extensive trip next week, which had to be completely changeable and refundable. For the reasons previously discussed herein and the following reasons which I stated elsewhere, my business goes to UA next week:

1. US Club Closures--In addition to moving business for ALL transcons to UA or others, I have joined the RCC rather than re join US club--reason? IT WAS LESS EXPENSIVE!

2. Catering Change on US Transcons--The "temporary" change to barf in a box meals in First Class on transcons is another example of CCY being less than honest with their customers. I'd rather be in economy plus than F on a US transcon at the moment (no offense to the wonderful crews however).

I fear that as soon as I find an alternative carrier for north-south routes, I will move as well.

Time will tell.....

I've agreed to with Bob and Art and have posted various vents on this elsewhere so I'll abstain at this time. I'm having a hard enough time just dealing with the fact Art, Bob, and I agree.

But I would suggest, to Art and Bob, that actions speak louder than words.

No, I don't expect to see either on the turd brown bus. KC and I would save you guys a seat, but you've made it clear you can't deal with the horror of an unassigned seat. That's okay.

But the time has arrived for you to take your money and business elsewhere.

If not now, at what point is the "final straw"?

You and FFOCUS have been lied to, used as pawns, and I do mean used.

The employees have been lied to. The employees have seen their wages eviscerated. The goal was not, is not, has never been about saving this airline. The goal has been to slash the wages so they can merge it or sell it but there was never any desire on their (mgmts) part to save it.

My gut feeling is that continuing to send the crowd at CCY your money only serves to encourage them. You continue under the guise of trying to do something for the good employees. That briefs well, and actually is a noble intent, but the bottom line is your money is getting held up somewhere between the time you spend it and the time the employees draw their meager paycheck.

The money is flowing into the pockets of no good management.

Not finding another carrier NOW is simply rewarding them.

[post="269243"][/post]​

 

[insp89]

qwerty -

Excellent post. The "lower level" management types are always getting lumped in with the executives in these types of discussions and I am glad you took the opportunity to point that out. Just as every union employee was offered the ability to sever from the company with severance pay, these people need to be afforded the same opportunities to either retain their services or thank them for a job well done when they are forced out through the merger.

When we look at the figure of the 18 million for the top 25 executives of the company.....I say no way in hell! Using the excuse that this is what is done in the business world during mergers and bankruptcies is total bull feathers. How many executives of failing companies are rewarded for pawning the problems off to someone else to fix? If the executive team ahd fixed the problems and returned the company to profitabilty and operational excellence, then I would be less opposed to the payoff. But to pay off executives for the operational and financial mess that we are in is just ridiculous.

How could any of the executives, in good conscious, accept that money knowing they didn't fix the problems here, they just moved the problems on to a different management team. The inherent problems of the entity, US Airways, will not change just because someone else bought the pig. There will still be huge obsticles to overcome. On merger day I would be happy to come to CCY and hand each executive a box, have them escorted to their desks (to clean them out), pat them on the back and say - sorry bub....we're going to have to let you go. The same type of scenario that has been played out over and over for nearly 25,000 other employees.

If there is such a drive to recruit the "executive talent" of US Airways, then why are any of them still here? What was the big payoff of staying with US? (besides the million + in severance/bonuses) My take on it is that they really aren't being recruited or they would be gone. I mean really.....can you imagine what would be on someone like MPA's resume?

Executive VP of Customer Service and Operations.

Unable to achieve any of my performance goals.
Brought Customer Service levels down as low as possible.
Lost millions of dollars by being the only person that didn't know that there was going to be a holiday melt down due to staffing issues.

well, you get the idea.

LibertyBell said, "Anyone think the bankruptcy judge has been already bought off?"

Hmmm, if this passes through the bankruptcy court with the judges approval as written, then I think I know where that discretionary 5 million dollars is going!

I understand the philosophy of retaining talent......and there is a lot of talent here to save, I just don't think a lot of it is at the top of the food chain. The first thing I would do if I were the bankruptcy judge would be to remove the 18 million for the executives with a big red NO FRICKEN WAY!

[post="269239"][/post]​

While I agree with most of your post, I have to take exception with some of your "lower level management types" comments.

I seem to recall, While union employees took paycuts in excess 18%, "lower level management types" took a whopping 1% cut when it was all said and done..

And now you seem to suggest they deserve severence pay...... :down:

 

[MarkMyWords]

Again, we are talking about low level managers that may not be retained in a merger due to duplication of duties. Those folks should be afforded the same severence opportunities as other employees that left voluntarily or were forced out. Would you prefer that they just be tossed to the curb with nothing?