BOS ALPA F/O Rep. Update - July 17, 2007

[EastUS]

Have you ever considered the notion that things would be MUCH worse WITHOUT ALPA?

Naturally I've considered it. I'm fully all ears as to exactly HOW you imagine that "things would be MUCH worse WITHOUT ALPA?"

Let me see: We (east) could work for bottom of the industry wages...got that one already checked off thanks to Alpo. We could have our pensions given away, and our planned, and expected future lives severely impacted...Hmmm...too late = Alpo's taken care of that as well. We could routinely work to the max FAA allowable duty days, with minimal rest periods...got that one set up...thanks again Alpo. OH!..I almost forgot = We could lose the last thing left...seniority...and be set up to fly next to someone that was in grade school when we started professional aviation as their "equal" or even "junior"...OOOPS!...Alpo's taken care of that one too.

SWA has the best pay and work conditions around..and, amazingly...didn't have Alpo in place..or they'd likely be much farther down on the benefits ladder IMHO. American seems to "get by" without Alpo...same thought there.

Blasting the bloated, and useless likes of Prater and company off the property and replacing them with an in house setup would be "MUCH worse"....Ummm....HOW?

 

[b737fo]

Say goodbye to pay raises for us (East and West) for the foreseeable future. The speed at which we get the company to move on separate but equal contracts will make a glacier look like it is doing Mach .82. Even ASA contract negotiations will seem quick compared to what we are about to go through.

 

[ussnark]

Have you ever considered the notion that things would be MUCH worse WITHOUT ALPA?

Yes.

I've also thought I could be hit by a meteorite, take a loss on my airline stock (oh, wait!), get hit by a bus or just drop dead.

Your point?

 

[EastUS]

Say goodbye to pay raises for us (East and West) for the foreseeable future. The speed at which we get the company to move on separate but equal contracts will make a glacier look like it is doing Mach .82. Even ASA contract negotiations will seem quick compared to what we are about to go through.

Ah yes...and the speed at which things are "improving" staying under Alpo's self centered/who really cares about the pilots? BS is just fantastic. Golly!!...It's only been..what? How long since this "merger" has been in place?...Seen ANY improvements in working conditions/wages/whatever in that time? Were they just too busy all this time setting up a disaster of the Nic size to get anything else done? Nice work there = Two Alpo MEC's that demonstrated their fullest ability to completely screw things up to the point of virtual civil war between groups...all within the confines of "one"...rotflmao..."union".

Refresh my memory: What, exactly IS the function of any Union? Isn't it supposedly to produce palpable benefits to the membership?...To make their working lives and futures BETTER...not WORSE?

"So Alpo says to me: Smile..things could be worse. So I smiled...and sure enough..without exception...every single time...Things got worse"

Great Idea for the day = keep betting on a "team" that's been without a single winning game for a quarter of a century. Yeah..that makes sense.

 

[ussnark]

The speed at which we get the company to move on separate but equal contracts will make a glacier look like it is doing Mach .82.

Sounds pretty fast to me. Is that like a snail doing the speed of light?

item: this is the third west employee tonight mixing their metaphors in a rather grotesque manner.

 

[Sig]

Naturally I've considered it. I'm fully all ears as to exactly HOW you imagine that "things would be MUCH worse WITHOUT ALPA?"

Perhaps because the same asshats will be making the decisions, regardless of what union they are affiliated with?

You're only blaming the lipstick the pig wears for the "injustices" meted out by... ooops... yourselves.

 

[EastUS]

Perhaps because the same asshats will be making the decisions, regardless of what union they are affiliated with?

You're only blaming the lipstick the pig wears for the "injustices" meted out by... ooops... yourselves.

OK...I'm trying to translate "You're only blaming the lipstick the pig wears..." I can only assume that it's a direct metaphor for Alpo?
Hey..if you UAL guys love Alpo..knock yourselves out :blink: That pathetic bunch has done nothing for us here.

Good Luck

 

[Sig]

That pathetic bunch has done nothing for us here.

UAL... wha? Anyway:

"That pathetic bunch" is your elected leadership regardless of union affiliation, not the union at large. The lipstick is ALPA/USAPA/EIEIO, the pig be your'n doins. If you elected liars and thieves to steer your ship on your behalf, you're to blame; they weren't installed by some illicit force outside your pilot group. So, mutatis mutandis, the same turds will cling to your little punch bowl no matter who's hosting the party.

The most amusing piece of the excreta pie you are serving is this: "ALPA must go, but before you go, gimme parity because we're ALPA and they're ALPA and that's fair. Then leave, because this ALPA thing just ain't fair. "

And as an addendum:

I well and truly hope this gets fixed- fairly, between both pilot groups. Enough's enough.

 

[700UW]

Ask the Fleet Service and Customer Service East Agents what happened to them in 1992 without a union.

Ask the DL Employees except the pilots what negotiations they had when DL went Chapter 11, oh wait they had none and the company did as they please.

Bottom line is you blame ALPA, look in the mirror you and your fellow pilots voted yes on every concession offered from the company, only people you have to blame is yourselves.

 

[Busdrvr]

Ask the Fleet Service and Customer Service East Agents what happened to them in 1992 without a union.

Ask the DL Employees except the pilots what negotiations they had when DL went Chapter 11, oh wait they had none and the company did as they please.

Bottom line is you blame ALPA, look in the mirror you and your fellow pilots voted yes on every concession offered from the company, only people you have to blame is yourselves.

Bingo! Let them leave, it'll make them easier to fire or staple if the unthinkable happens (a UAL/U merge).

 

[EastUS]

Bottom line is you blame ALPA, look in the mirror

Go pound sand bozo. Before tossing the "It's all YOUR fault" BS up; explain to me how and WHY it is that such "little things" as the pension being tossed away...WITHOUT THE MEMBERSHIP'S being "allowed" ANY vote...is MY/OUR "fault"..and nice try on the concessions voting supposition...I've always been a "NO" vote on concessions...in case my "docile nature" has escaped you totally.

No one's saying anything about being "without a union" here except you btw. It's a question of establishing an actually functional Union in place of Alpo.

While I can understand that any attack on an established "union", that does little or nothing for it's membership, would be cause for you personally to get weak in the knees, don't try the "It's all your fault" BS on me.

Get Lost :down:

 

[nycbusdriver]

I heard that Garland only has a few months left. What does he care if nobody ever gets a raise? All he's interested in doing is not taking any blame for the Nicolau Award. I heard that he's not a *real* East pilot either - he came from Trump.

Garland retires on February 29th of next year. I have rarely agreed with anything that he says, and I have found his stances previous to Nicolau to be diametrically opposed to the general welfare of the USAirways pilots. But this time I agree with his proposal (conjecture?) that the two pilot groups be governed by two separate, identical contracts. This would solve a lot of problems, and since the west pilots are not at all interested in any of the stuff that the east pilots brought to the table, then it should be a workable solution. Doogie himself has said on many occasions that the savings of having a combined pilot contract amounts to a mere $10 million or so per year. That is cheap for labor peace.

In fact, I think that if absolutely necessary, the east pilots would even sign off on an indentical contract that would only take effect for the east on the amendable date of the LOA 93-influenced east contract...sometime in 2009. This, of course, would likely mean that most (if not all) of the additional flying/hiring would take place in the east until that contract took effect since our costs to the company are lower.

There might also be a date agreed upon where the identical contracts would become one....maybe 5 or so years down the road when most of us geriatric easties would be gone and the attrition has fallen where it should for both sides.

I can't imagine why the west pilots would not agree to a concept like this. We keep hearing that they are not interested in our transatlantic flying, widebodies or our miserable east coast operations. This proposal would at least smoke-out the truth to this stance.

 

[EastUS]

Bingo! Let them leave, it'll make them easier to fire or staple if the unthinkable happens (a UAL/U merge).

Oooooh!...Now I'm waay too scared to even think about it What an unthinkable concept = stapling people to the bottom...kinda' like Alpo/Nic did? Nice try :down:

You merely offer up the "standard ALpo" notion of acting as if cowardice is somehow a "virtue".

Addendum "Busdrvr": You're a truly First Class "Piece of Work" that would gleefully see your supposed Alpo Brothers "Fired or stapled". You've fully shown the truly useless nature of Alpo as ANY emblance of a "national union"...not too mention the extremely vile nature of those most typically supportive of Alpo.

Have a fine day.

 

[prechilill]

Garland retires on February 29th of next year. I have rarely agreed with anything that he says, and I have found his stances previous to Nicolau to be diametrically opposed to the general welfare of the USAirways pilots. But this time I agree with his proposal (conjecture?) that the two pilot groups be governed by two separate, identical contracts. This would solve a lot of problems, and since the west pilots are not at all interested in any of the stuff that the east pilots brought to the table, then it should be a workable solution. Doogie himself has said on many occasions that the savings of having a combined pilot contract amounts to a mere $10 million or so per year. That is cheap for labor peace.

In fact, I think that if absolutely necessary, the east pilots would even sign off on an indentical contract that would only take effect for the east on the amendable date of the LOA 93-influenced east contract...sometime in 2009. This, of course, would likely mean that most (if not all) of the additional flying/hiring would take place in the east until that contract took effect since our costs to the company are lower.

There might also be a date agreed upon where the identical contracts would become one....maybe 5 or so years down the road when most of us geriatric easties would be gone and the attrition has fallen where it should for both sides.

I can't imagine why the west pilots would not agree to a concept like this. We keep hearing that they are not interested in our transatlantic flying, widebodies or our miserable east coast operations. This proposal would at least smoke-out the truth to this stance.

Translation: "We will do everything we can to try and climb all over the AWA pilots. The arbitrator and our own pilot neutral wouldn't let us, ALPA National won't let us, but we'll keep on trying some scheme to screw AWA!"

I never met a group so willing to undermine the piloting profession. Perhaps you should put a little thought into your posts. Have a great day!

Addendum "Busdrvr": You're a truly First Class "Piece of Work" that would gleefully see your supposed Alpo Brothers "Fired or stapled". You've fully shown the truly useless nature of Alpo as ANY emblance of a "national union"...not too mention the extremely vile nature of those most typically supportive of Alpo.

You, the chipster and nycbusdriver (see post above) are the only pilots (well, a few other nuballs too) advocating cheap labor costs, happily working for garbage and doing anything you can to screw the pilot union. You're kinda drooling hypocrisy out of both sides of your mouth.

Have a great day!

 

[USA320Pilot]

I believe the best option to settle the Nicolau Award problem and help the joint pilot group and company move forward was presented by the ALPA EC to the MEC's earlier this week, which is a a joint contract and separate operations.

As BOS F/O Rep. Garland Jones said, "The day's discussion focused on solutions to the problem, and the only one which, in my view, will be a realistic one, is to keep these two operations separately indefinitely."

"As I pointed out at the meeting, "indefinitely" means that there's no intent to ever put the operations together, thereby making the Nicolau Award totally irrelevant in our yet to be negotiated Separate Operations Agreement. And being totally irrelevant, the Nicolau Award can then sit on a self in the archives of ALPA in perpetuity, with no need of the Executive Council to ever release it," Garland indicated.

Garland continued, "What is also unacceptable to everyone in the room, and as repeated by John Prater and Paul Rice throughout the day, is to allow Doug Parker a continuation of his free ride with our bottom of the industry pay and working conditions. So simultaneous with an agreement with the Company to run these operations separately would be our negotiation of a new, identical Contract for both the East and West."

Here is an important point. At the EC, US Airways MEC, and AWA MEC meeting earlier this week Garland indicated, “Much work needs to be done on this concept (keep the two operations separate and obtain a new joint contract with whipsaw/scope protections), to be sure, but as we spent a great deal of time discussing this one solution, there is already momentum here that we must continue to develop.â€￾

Therefore, it appears the EC, US Airways MEC, and AWA MEC are already working on the joint contract/separate operation approach as a means to settle the dispute.

Best regards,

USA320Pilot