I've always thought Michael Boyd had some of the best insight into the airline industry. He says the merger will be difficult but not impossible.
http://www.aviationplanning.com/asrc1.htm
http://www.aviationplanning.com/asrc1.htm
Boyd On Merger
- Thread starter FM2436
- Start date
"Buttressing the argument that there is little additional traffic that the combined route structures can develop, it should be remembered that US Airways today has a code share agreement with United, one that will go away with the merger. The traffic flows US Airways now accesses through the UA hubs at Denver and Chicago/O'Hare are likely much stronger than what America West can offer through PHX and LAS."
Why would the Codeshare go away with the merger ? If CAL / NW / and DAL have one why would UA / HP and UAIR under Star not continue ?
Why would the Codeshare go away with the merger ? If CAL / NW / and DAL have one why would UA / HP and UAIR under Star not continue ?
LGA/037:
I do not agree with Boyd much of the time, but I can see how the United merger would end because of antitrust issues, the expanded North American network, and the ability to keep revenue "in-houe". The combined US Airways – America West will fly to almost every current US Airways-United city and it would be better for the merged company to keep the passengers on its own aircraft. In addition, there is going to be much stronger ties with Air Canada, another Star Alliance carrier.
According to Reuters, ACE said Air Canada Technical Services, a limited partnership of ACE that has service contracts with more than 100 global customers, can undertake the maintenance work with a minimal capital investment of about $20 million, using capacity available at existing facilities. The agreement may also extend to cover engine maintenance and supply chain management. The deal is expected to see Air Canada, the country's dominant carrier, gain improved access to selected gates and facilities at a number of U.S. airports, including New York's LaGuardia Airport, Boston's Logan Airport and Phoenix International Airport, among others. ACE's regional carrier, Jazz, may also see increased opportunities to partner with the new airline on transborder services.
Meawnhile, from an international perspective the new US Airways can book on other international carriers and keep its global network reach intact, whether or not the Arlington-based company code shares with United.
I believe Boyd is right on this subject and by “shunning†United again US Airways could end up with keeping United's portion of the code share revenue of up to $250 to $300 million when the merger integration is complete.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
I do not agree with Boyd much of the time, but I can see how the United merger would end because of antitrust issues, the expanded North American network, and the ability to keep revenue "in-houe". The combined US Airways – America West will fly to almost every current US Airways-United city and it would be better for the merged company to keep the passengers on its own aircraft. In addition, there is going to be much stronger ties with Air Canada, another Star Alliance carrier.
According to Reuters, ACE said Air Canada Technical Services, a limited partnership of ACE that has service contracts with more than 100 global customers, can undertake the maintenance work with a minimal capital investment of about $20 million, using capacity available at existing facilities. The agreement may also extend to cover engine maintenance and supply chain management. The deal is expected to see Air Canada, the country's dominant carrier, gain improved access to selected gates and facilities at a number of U.S. airports, including New York's LaGuardia Airport, Boston's Logan Airport and Phoenix International Airport, among others. ACE's regional carrier, Jazz, may also see increased opportunities to partner with the new airline on transborder services.
Meawnhile, from an international perspective the new US Airways can book on other international carriers and keep its global network reach intact, whether or not the Arlington-based company code shares with United.
I believe Boyd is right on this subject and by “shunning†United again US Airways could end up with keeping United's portion of the code share revenue of up to $250 to $300 million when the merger integration is complete.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
delldude
Veteran
this is interesting in itself....if i remember correctly there is a building in PIT named Final Assy.Building that employs some 60-75 people doing engine work.....how will they pull this off w/o any contract modifications?
they have a state of the art test cell also....maybe two now???
USA320Pilot said:
From a first hand perspective, there are a lot of people on the Code Share flights that ARENT going to be able to get there on the current combined US/HP route network. GRB/TUL/RAP/DSM are just a couple of the cities in the center of the country that will lose US service from the East Coast if the US/UA codeshare is dropped. It would be much better $ wise to keep the code share if possible and build off of it instead of just dropping it. We do have a lot of people doing the double connect on US via CLT to ORD and then connecting on UA to the final destination. You should check out some of the connecting lists sometimes and see just how many people are connecting from US to UA flights. You might be surprised at the numbers some days.
USA320Pilot said:
You crack me up. when Mexicana quit code sharing with UAL, how did that Star thing work out? I really see SIN and some fo the other quality Star carriers jumping for joy to have a 'full service LCC' as part of the mix. Kind of like a Pinto rebadged as a Lincoln.
but you mention UAL being "rebuffed" again, whn was the "first" time U "rebuffed UAL? What makes you think UAL was simply unwilling to pay for a boat anchor? Face it, you'll finish your career on a NB, and if you're VERY lucky, you'll do it with four stripes....
Quote "after the US Airways labor slow-down fiasco of last Christmas."
This man is an a$$. He obviously didn't read the DOT report regarding that situation, which fully pinned the blame on US Airways management. :down:
This man is an a$$. He obviously didn't read the DOT report regarding that situation, which fully pinned the blame on US Airways management. :down:
Busdrvr:
Busdrvr said: "but you mention UAL being "rebuffed" again, whn was the "first" time U "rebuffed UAL? What makes you think UAL was simply unwilling to pay for a boat anchor? Face it, you'll finish your career on a NB, and if you're VERY lucky, you'll do it with four stripes."
USA320Pilot comments: It's a fact that two months ago United senior executives were in CCY and were "shunned" by US Airways in another M&A attempt. US Airways was lining up financing for the America West deal and believed the agreement was better with the Tempe-based airline, thus Bruce Lakefield rejected United's attempt to combine companies. Why don't you go address the subject with United senior management at WHQ?
What's the comment about the Airbus have to do with anything? Are you a little concerned that United will lose most if not all domestic code share revenue of about $250 million per year and that Air Candada seems to be moving away from United and towards US Airways, where Untied could see more financial pressure?
By the way, with the avergage US Airways pilot age approaching 54 years old I have no risk of becoming a First Officer, at this point, and I may not fly the A350 because I intend to retire before age 60. Maybe I will see you on the beach or golf course.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
P.S. Why are you being personal...are you a little scared right now?
Busdrvr said: "but you mention UAL being "rebuffed" again, whn was the "first" time U "rebuffed UAL? What makes you think UAL was simply unwilling to pay for a boat anchor? Face it, you'll finish your career on a NB, and if you're VERY lucky, you'll do it with four stripes."
USA320Pilot comments: It's a fact that two months ago United senior executives were in CCY and were "shunned" by US Airways in another M&A attempt. US Airways was lining up financing for the America West deal and believed the agreement was better with the Tempe-based airline, thus Bruce Lakefield rejected United's attempt to combine companies. Why don't you go address the subject with United senior management at WHQ?
What's the comment about the Airbus have to do with anything? Are you a little concerned that United will lose most if not all domestic code share revenue of about $250 million per year and that Air Candada seems to be moving away from United and towards US Airways, where Untied could see more financial pressure?
By the way, with the avergage US Airways pilot age approaching 54 years old I have no risk of becoming a First Officer, at this point, and I may not fly the A350 because I intend to retire before age 60. Maybe I will see you on the beach or golf course.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
P.S. Why are you being personal...are you a little scared right now?
If there is no UA/US codeshare, there is no US in Star. US being let in to Star was contingent on codesharing with UA. Since UA was the first airline from the U.S.A in Star, they have first right of refusal on US. No codeshare, no US in Star. I can see the DOT requiring the codeshare to be scaled back in the west, which UA might agree to, but it won't go away. US doesn't want it to go away and I doubt UA does either.
LD3
Veteran
If you listen to Boyd and every other consultant out there, everyone @ U would have been flipping burgers by July.....They serve no purpose but to pi$$ off everyone with their usually wrong predictions of the industry...
It's a fact that two months ago United senior executives were in CCY and were "shunned" by US Airways in another M&A attempt.
Oh, so they were "rebuffed" in favor of AWA, so again, when was that OTHER time they were "rebuffed"? (you state UAL was rebuffed "again") But let's get this part straight. You have inside information about the proposed deals? you become a bigger joke daily
Why don't you go address the subject with United senior management at WHQ?
What's to address? I've NEVER wanted any sort of "corporate transaction" with U. UAL's plan has always been as a survivor, vs U's plan of the last 10 years that they can't make it alone. Now they are getting bought by one of the smallest, lowest paying, airlines in the industry. you must be so proud of wht U've become.
Are you a little concerned that United will lose most if not all domestic code share revenue of about $250 million per year and that Air Candada seems to be moving away from United and towards US Airways, where Untied could see more financial pressure?
Nope, U will lose way more in the deal if U dump the codeshare. I'm hoping it happens. I'd much rather UAL hookup with DAL for quality and reach reasons. I think that with all the downguaging of quality at U, U no longer fits the bill as a worthy member of Star.
But see, you have to call UAL names, like some pathetic playground punk. That's what infuriates me.
But yes, I'm terrrified. As a 54 YO washed up pilot who made a few bad descisions in the past, I now find that I can never meet my goal of flying the "big iron". If I hadn't jumped to my current job, I'd be Capt on a 747-400 flying around the pacific. I have no other skills or job prospects. Now I must rely on the good graces of other companies to buy me out, otherwise I'm unemployed. I'm downright giddy about a deal that parks another 5th of my airlines jets, because I don't think it will affect me. Never mind the folks on the street. And at work, nobody likes me. Yeah I'm scared.....
Oh, so they were "rebuffed" in favor of AWA, so again, when was that OTHER time they were "rebuffed"? (you state UAL was rebuffed "again")
But let's get this part straight. You have inside information about the proposed deals? you become a bigger joke daily Why don't you go address the subject with United senior management at WHQ?
What's to address? I've NEVER wanted any sort of "corporate transaction" with U. UAL's plan has always been as a survivor, vs U's plan of the last 10 years that they can't make it alone. Now they are getting bought by one of the smallest, lowest paying, airlines in the industry. you must be so proud of wht U've become.
Are you a little concerned that United will lose most if not all domestic code share revenue of about $250 million per year and that Air Candada seems to be moving away from United and towards US Airways, where Untied could see more financial pressure?
Nope, U will lose way more in the deal if U dump the codeshare. I'm hoping it happens. I'd much rather UAL hookup with DAL for quality and reach reasons. I think that with all the downguaging of quality at U, U no longer fits the bill as a worthy member of Star.
But see, you have to call UAL names, like some pathetic playground punk. That's what infuriates me.
But yes, I'm terrrified. As a 54 YO washed up pilot who made a few bad descisions in the past, I now find that I can never meet my goal of flying the "big iron". If I hadn't jumped to my current job, I'd be Capt on a 747-400 flying around the pacific. I have no other skills or job prospects. Now I must rely on the good graces of other companies to buy me out, otherwise I'm unemployed. I'm downright giddy about a deal that parks another 5th of my airlines jets, because I don't think it will affect me. Never mind the folks on the street. And at work, nobody likes me. Yeah I'm scared.....
- Thread Starter
- #13
FM2436 said:
In another piece from Boyd, he claims what competitors may choose to immediately do in Charlotte will make, or break any merger.
http://www.airportsusa.com/snapshottemplate.htm
Busdrvr:
Are you a little emotional today? I simply gave you the facts and you got upset because you do not like the news, but why get personal? You’re not scared about United are you?
Washed up? I suggest you look at my portfolio and compare it to virtually every United employee. It might not be too bad if I can afford to retire early without an airline pension. Can you? By the way, I have not reached 50 years old yet and I am one of the youngest US Airways pilots.
I find the United pilot ego on this board interesting for a "failed" company that has been wallowing in bankruptcy for 2.5 years, with no plan of reorganization, and continually has a floating date for its exit from the formal reorganization, if any exit at all. Maybe you should not throw stones.
Face it, the US Airways - America West deal will hurt United and so will the US Airways - Air Canada deal, because it's my understanding that the new merged company and Air Canada are going to share facilities to cut costs and boost revenue.
By the way, why do you think fellow Star Alliance partner Air Canada elected to provide US Airways with funding and to work with the new business enterprise and did not cut the same deal with United?
What's your thought on this?
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Are you a little emotional today? I simply gave you the facts and you got upset because you do not like the news, but why get personal? You’re not scared about United are you?
Washed up? I suggest you look at my portfolio and compare it to virtually every United employee. It might not be too bad if I can afford to retire early without an airline pension. Can you? By the way, I have not reached 50 years old yet and I am one of the youngest US Airways pilots.
I find the United pilot ego on this board interesting for a "failed" company that has been wallowing in bankruptcy for 2.5 years, with no plan of reorganization, and continually has a floating date for its exit from the formal reorganization, if any exit at all. Maybe you should not throw stones.
Face it, the US Airways - America West deal will hurt United and so will the US Airways - Air Canada deal, because it's my understanding that the new merged company and Air Canada are going to share facilities to cut costs and boost revenue.
By the way, why do you think fellow Star Alliance partner Air Canada elected to provide US Airways with funding and to work with the new business enterprise and did not cut the same deal with United?
What's your thought on this?
Regards,
USA320Pilot
