Bush's fault......

[delldude]

All well and good for PROPOSING amending the constitution...however there is that little bugaboo called RATIFYING the PROPOSED amendment.



The amendment was changed via a proposal only. It has not been ratified. You patriots should demand that it be ratified.

Oct 26, 2001: Became Public Law No: 107-56.

Looks to me it is a law not a Constitutional amendment.

If it is unConstitutional then it needs a challenge before the Supremes.

 

[KCFlyer]

Oct 26, 2001: Became Public Law No: 107-56.

Looks to me it is a law not a Constitutional amendment.

If it is unConstitutional then it needs a challenge before the Supremes.

That's what me and others on the left have been screaming about ever since it was enacted. It's a clear violation of the fourth amendment. But to demand that meant that we were "terrorist sympathizers"

 

[dapoes]

That's what me and others on the left have been screaming about ever since it was enacted. It's a clear violation of the fourth amendment. But to demand that meant that we were "terrorist sympathizers"

Liberal Logic: Theres nothing that strikes fear the most in terrorists is the feeling that their constitutional rights are being stepped on. Even tho they aren't American. Or from America. And chant "death to America".

:blink:

 

[KCFlyer]

Liberal Logic: Theres nothing that strikes fear the most in terrorists is the feeling that their constitutional rights are being stepped on. Even tho they aren't American. Or from America. And chant "death to America".

:blink:

Dapoes...okie dokie...we've got a democratic president and a democrat majority in the house....let's say that they determine that guns are bad because terrorists use them, so they decide to ban them. It gets everything needed to pass as a proposed amendment...just not ratified. Are you now feeling safer?

Liberals tend to believe that ANYTHNG that usurps the constitution of the United States outside of the procedures outlined in the constitution should strike fear into the average American.

Bottom line...if it was so easy to get around #4...doesn't it worry you that getting around # 2 should be just as easy?

 

[delldude]

That's what me and others on the left have been screaming about ever since it was enacted. It's a clear violation of the fourth amendment. But to demand that meant that we were "terrorist sympathizers"

You want that...go to a tea party rally.......

 

[KCFlyer]

You want that...go to a tea party rally.......

You remember back when we first went into Iraq? There was a video that the righties just laughed and laughed over...some "patriots in a pickup" doused some "terrorist sympathizer" war protesters with water - in Alaska. Gosh it was funny. Anybody have stuff like that happen at a tea party? I've read a lot of boards since the infamous tea party...never have I seen anyone from the left call someone from the right "unpatriotic"....and that was the LEAST of the things that those of us who spoke out against the trampling of the fourth amendment were called.

 

[delldude]

You remember back when we first went into Iraq? There was a video that the righties just laughed and laughed over...some "patriots in a pickup" doused some "terrorist sympathizer" war protesters with water - in Alaska. Gosh it was funny. Anybody have stuff like that happen at a tea party? I've read a lot of boards since the infamous tea party...never have I seen anyone from the left call someone from the right "unpatriotic"....and that was the LEAST of the things that those of us who spoke out against the trampling of the fourth amendment were called.

For openers:

 

[delldude]

That's what me and others on the left have been screaming about ever since it was enacted. It's a clear violation of the fourth amendment. But to demand that meant that we were "terrorist sympathizers"

Get someone who has been wronged and challenge it then. Tha'ts the due process.

 

[KCFlyer]

Get someone who has been wronged and challenge it then. Tha'ts the due process.

By the time you find someone who has "been wronged ", then it's too late.

I don't own a gun...never have, so I guess I shouldn't care if they abolish the second amendment. I "haven't been wronged".

If the founding fathers weren't worried about illegal search and seizure because very few people had "been wronged", why did they even bother adding that amendment? How many of our founding fathers who drafted the constitution had "been wronged" by the King? My view of this is that they added that to the constitution not because they had "been wronged", but because someone in power AFTER them MIGHT want to abuse that. When Americans roll over and let the constitution be raped as it was and fall for the "if you haven't done anything wrong, you don't have anything to worry about" reasoning, then they have left the door open for FUTURE administrations to arbitrarily deem someone a "terrorist"...let's say Obama deems Rupert Murdoch as a terrorist...now he has every right to conduct a search and seize "evidence" against him. Or let's say that President Palin deems a sex educator to be a 'terrorist' for teaching kids about birth control. It's not about who HAS been wronged...it's about who MIGHT be harmed.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Sadly the Patriot Act will NEVER be challenged IMO.

First of all where would you find someone with the balls and the bucks to see it through that also has been wronged for a test case.

The Repunlicrat power structure that voted this steaming turd into law are still in power due to an electorate blinded by fear, emotion and enough apathy so that 50 to 70 percent of the electorate never bother to vote.

So we've perverted our Constitution and bent it to the will of various and sundry groups with the money to buy votes while those same forces buy up and control the media, divide us into Red/Blue states, Liberal/Conservative, Dem/Rep all the while ramping up the fear mongering as required in order to silence us.

And you know what? It's working

 

[dapoes]

Dapoes...okie dokie...we've got a democratic president and a democrat majority in the house....let's say that they determine that guns are bad because terrorists use them, so they decide to ban them. It gets everything needed to pass as a proposed amendment...just not ratified. Are you now feeling safer?

Liberals tend to believe that ANYTHNG that usurps the constitution of the United States outside of the procedures outlined in the constitution should strike fear into the average American.

Bottom line...if it was so easy to get around #4...doesn't it worry you that getting around # 2 should be just as easy?

Lets have that discussion if it actually is proposed (which it is not). To argue about "what if's" is endless/pointless. I try to stick with "what is" not "what if".

 

[KCFlyer]

Lets have that discussion if it actually is proposed (which it is not). To argue about "what if's" is endless/pointless. I try to stick with "what is" not "what if".

I have...but you seem to think that the trampling of the fourth amendment is no big deal, and that anyone who feels otherwise is coddling terrorists. I am looking at the INTENT of the constitution, and how easily it was ignored. Since that one doesn't bother you, I try to put into terms that you MIGHT understand, but apparently you can't.

 

[delldude]

The problem is the Supreme Court will not hear arguments just because it tick's someone off as far as I know.

Someone has to have an issue.

That young kid that got arrested under the Patriot Act over some internet threat is probably your ringer.

Tech2101 and myself have issues but I don't think that will cut the muster.......

 

[tech2101]

Tech2101 and myself have issues but I don't think that will cut the muster.......

My issues are bigger and better than your issues... :unsure:

 

[dapoes]

I have...but you seem to think that the trampling of the fourth amendment is no big deal, and that anyone who feels otherwise is coddling terrorists. I am looking at the INTENT of the constitution, and how easily it was ignored. Since that one doesn't bother you, I try to put into terms that you MIGHT understand, but apparently you can't.

No you have not. You pulled a "what if" out of thin air and want to debate over it. Good luck with that.