Censorship of Information by Burchette

[Raptor]

You're not serious about settling for what we have? If that is the case, expect a major revolt on the line if a contract is brought back and bought by Tulsa that resembles those remarks. :down: Anything less than the return of our contract as a starting point with improvements from there is a sellout. If your remarks represent the majority of Tulsa, then tell your president to remain home and keep what you have and allow the pie to be divided by those who need it.

Bob what you said about Burchette is pretty much what I heard as well, it is interesting how the rest of the story played out to get him back in, that part I did not know.

AMFAMAN I don't know if my view is the Majority or not but I have heard it quite alot lately, many people just do not have much faith in Burchette or the International or even Louis nor do they have much faith in Blue Zebras ( we aren't allowed to say the S word in Tulsa ) as you know :unsure:
so what is left, trying to keep what we have, we have already seen the companies offer on the extension thanks to local 565 that offer included some serious concessions, the company says we make as much and have the same benefits as the other Major Airlines Delta, United, Northwest, Continental and they have no Pension, so do you really think they are going to bump us much above them, let's be realistic, has that ever happened in the last 20 years, of course not.
We have Never been much above those airlines, as many have stated the only reason we got a good bump in 2001 was because AMFA got Northwest a good bump and we just followed them.
It will be interesting to see if there is a Major revolt from the line, if there is I would be fine with it myself, but we have not seen the line go against the International and Tulsa yet, remember the 2003 concession that would have been a good time for a revolt but nothing happened.
I don't have huge expectations for this next contract therefor I am hoping I won't be very disappointed, of course if we lose retiree medical or something else I certainly will be disappointed.
I understand that many people on the lines cannot retire because of the high cost of living but here in Tulsa many of us are looking forward to retiring very soon. there is a light at the end of this dark tunnel.

 

[Raptor]

Here at the Tulsa base, Maintenance has been spending alot of money lately buying tools for Mechanics or refrigerators or coffee makers, you name it, plus they have been offering overtime in area's that have not had overtime in many years, many people are speculating the reason for all this spending is to inflate the budget for the upcoming negotiations thereby making our cost per seat mile look even worse than it does, I don't know if that is the case or not but something seems to be going on.
You would think that Mechanics would not indulge just in case that is what is going on, but you would be wrong many are taking everything they can get from the company regardless of what the companies plan may be.

I think there are those who underestimate this company.

 

[AMFAMAN]

AMFAMAN I don't know if my view is the Majority or not but I have heard it quite alot lately, many people just do not have much faith in Burchette or the International or even Louis nor do they have much faith in Blue Zebras ( we aren't allowed to say the S word in Tulsa ) as you know :unsure:

So why is there no revolt out of Tulsa. You have no faith, but yet no fighting back. :huh:

so what is left, trying to keep what we have, we have already seen the companies offer on the extension thanks to local 565 that offer included some serious concessions, the company says we make as much and have the same benefits as the other Major Airlines Delta, United, Northwest, Continental and they have no Pension.

They do have a pension, in fact two, one from the PBGC and one 401k style fund. Money wise it works out to roughly the same amount of money for most as we get. The ones who really get screwed with the PBGC are the pilots, but to say they have no pension is a rather ignorant statement. :down:

It will be interesting to see if there is a Major revolt from the line, if there is I would be fine with it myself, but we have not seen the line go against the International and Tulsa yet, remember the 2003 concession that would have been a good time for a revolt but nothing happened.

No revolt in 2003, what do you call 99% of line mechanics signing AMFA cards to boot this union. The same thing would happen right now if Tulsa would sign a card, any card for that matter to boot this idiots. If allowed, the line would be out of this union today.

 

[Raptor]

So why is there no revolt out of Tulsa. You have no faith, but yet no fighting back. :huh:
They do have a pension, in fact two, one from the PBGC and one 401k style fund. Money wise it works out to roughly the same amount of money for most as we get. The ones who really get screwed with the PBGC are the pilots, but to say they have no pension is a rather ignorant statement. :down:
No revolt in 2003, what do you call 99% of line mechanics signing AMFA cards to boot this union. The same thing would happen right now if Tulsa would sign a card, any card for that matter to boot this idiots. If allowed, the line would be out of this union today.

There is no revolt because as I said Tulsans are Apathetic, they are not passionate about much of anything anymore atleast that is my observation.
Remember the cost of living here is drastically lower than pretty much everywhere but Arkansas one must always keep that in mind when you are trying to figure out why we are so complacent.

It is not Ignorant at all, I think you know what I meant when I said they have no Pension, they do not have a current company funded Pension and the 401K is a joke 3,000 dollars a year you can have that, I want no part of it, nor do I want my Pension frozen and given to the Government you can have that as well, I will pass on both of those options thank you.
since these other companies do not have CURRENT very costly Defined Pension plans only a piddly ass nothing 401K plan their cost's are much less than ours, that of course was my point, sorry if you missed it.
Signing a bunch of cards is not the kind of revolt we were talking about, signing a card is very easy to do but try going on strike without the International's backing or Tulsa's now that would be a real revolt, and that is the kind of revolt that was being talked about, all I can say is it has never happened therefor I am skeptical that it ever will happen, but if it does as I said I will be cheering you guys on as I think it is a great idea. The line stations are the ones with the real power should they choose to use it, it would takes Months before an Overhaul base could hurt the company, and a mere week for the line station.

As for AMFA I still think it is a great idea myself but after what happened at United and Northwest I do not think there will be another AMFA drive in Tulsa for a very long time, many people who barely signed before told me they would not sign again because of what happened with those 2 Airlines.....now before you shoot the messenger, I am just telling you what they have said NOT what I said.
I personally DO NOT blame AMFA for what happened at those 2 Airlines but many others do, and that is all I want to say about AMFA, it is part of the past for now and I would just as soon leave it there for now.
People in Tulsa scare very easily if you havent' noticed, there has not been a TWU strike in Tulsa for what 40 years now, I am not sure when the last time was but it has not been in the last 25 years I am sure of that, if you look at the History of the TWU at AA you know that the odds of a strike are like a million to one, so as I said I would very much like to see the line revolt and strike regardless of the International and Tulsa but I think it is very unlikely to happen.

I am not big on hope, I simply look at the past and use it to predict the Future, it almost always works.

 

[TWU informer]

Maybe the folks in Tulsa are just not being told the truth.

Maybe the folks in Tulsa are just not being given any facts.

Maybe the folks in Tulsa are just being lead by cowards and so they live and act like cowards.

Geezzz, reading Raptor's postings it really appears he describes himself and his feelings and yet, points the finger at others.

I work around some folks that don't seem near as afraid or scared like he reports.

Revolt? Well, taking on the TWU, AA, AFL-CIO, NMB is really more of challenge that one would believe.

I suspect Raptor is correct about an AMFA drive in Tulsa, but an independent union would likely succeed. However, as long as the line majority wants to stick with an AMFA movement, don't look for a unified movement for change in Tulsa in any direction to begin.

As always, I have had enough of the TWU, but with nay-sayers like raptor having the ear of many, where and how would we break through the negative or " there is nothing we can do" mentality?

I saw a group of guys in Tulsa attempt to make change, they filed lawsuits against AA, they used there vacation and personal funds to attempt to oust the TWU. However, it was the bubba-lievers, and negative minded nay-sayers that consumed every negative story the TWU wrote about these guys and what they represented. This battle went on 5+ years and ended when the NMB believed the AA/TWU BS about who belongs on the list of eligible voters.

Raptor can believe Tulsa has no power, and no fighters all he wants. I believe the exact opposite is true and that there is a large number of fed-up fighters in Tulsa just waiting for someone to lead and a unified direction of change to emerge for them to embrace.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Bob what you said about Burchette is pretty much what I heard as well, it is interesting how the rest of the story played out to get him back in, that part I did not know.

AMFAMAN I don't know if my view is the Majority or not but I have heard it quite alot lately, many people just do not have much faith in Burchette or the International or even Louis nor do they have much faith in Blue Zebras ( we aren't allowed to say the S word in Tulsa ) as you know :unsure:
so what is left, trying to keep what we have, we have already seen the companies offer on the extension thanks to local 565 that offer included some serious concessions, the company says we make as much and have the same benefits as the other Major Airlines Delta, United, Northwest, Continental and they have no Pension, so do you really think they are going to bump us much above them, let's be realistic, has that ever happened in the last 20 years, of course not.
We have Never been much above those airlines, as many have stated the only reason we got a good bump in 2001 was because AMFA got Northwest a good bump and we just followed them.
It will be interesting to see if there is a Major revolt from the line, if there is I would be fine with it myself, but we have not seen the line go against the International and Tulsa yet, remember the 2003 concession that would have been a good time for a revolt but nothing happened.
I don't have huge expectations for this next contract therefor I am hoping I won't be very disappointed, of course if we lose retiree medical or something else I certainly will be disappointed.
I understand that many people on the lines cannot retire because of the high cost of living but here in Tulsa many of us are looking forward to retiring very soon. there is a light at the end of this dark tunnel.

Raptor,

I believe that there are many AMTs in Tulsa that when allowed to be given facts can make an informed decision. The problem is that many don't get the truth. Just look at the reaction of Local 514 when another Local puts facts out there! The comment about how Tulsa AMTs won't sign a card for AMFA because of what happened at UAL & NWA is proof positive Tulsa AMTs are spoon fed.

If the twu was truly pro-AMT then why was there no official, concrete assistance from them? Both unions represent our proud craft and what happens at one airline effects another. NWA wanted the AMTs to vote on a contract that would eliminate HALF THE AMTs there! AMFA did what they had to do. It was the SCABS andDISHONORABLE that weakened AMFA's position. Should AMFA just accept losing all those jobs? What would the twu have done if the roles were reversed?

But I digress. The facts remain that AMTs have already given. If aa complains about competing with airlines that were in BK then that was AA's fault for not following! I am tired of bullshit and apples being compared to oranges when it comes to my craft. AA had simply wake up to the fact that the int. will NOT be able to change the shade of lipstick and style of skirt any pig they parade in front of us and have it pass.

Another thing, if we even do vote on a t/a it better not be like last time with a PIN # hard to get and the ability to change your vote once it is cast. If THAT pig trick is used again you know the twu wants the t/a to pass.

Lastly, I know AA and the union read this bb. If either have something to say about what I post have the stones to talk to me directly and show me where I am wrong in what I believe and post. It is funny seeing AA promote and market our skills for third party work but will not pay what our skills are worth.

 

[Raptor]

Come on Informer let's not put words in my mouth first.

Geezzz, reading Raptor's postings it really appears he describes himself and his feelings and yet, points the finger at others.

I am not pointing fingers at anyone I am merly giving my perception and yes I am one of the Apathetic at the present.

I work around some folks that don't seem near as afraid or scared like he reports.

That's great you must work in a different area than me, how many of those guys voted FOR the 2003 concession a whole lot of people in Tulsa did :unsure:

I saw a group of guys in Tulsa attempt to make change, they filed lawsuits against AA, they used there vacation and personal funds to attempt to oust the TWU. However, it was the bubba-lievers, and negative minded nay-sayers that consumed every negative story the TWU wrote about these guys and what they represented. This battle went on 5+ years and ended when the NMB believed the AA/TWU BS about who belongs on the list of eligible voters.

I saw that group as well, remember I was part of it and most likely few worked harder than I did on the project, but out of 7,000+ people our very ACTIVE group was fairly small, I never said there were NO fighters in Tulsa clearly there are some, but in my OPINION the vast Majority are Apathic ( more now than in 2003 ) There is a reason why the line stations do not like Tulsa it's called Apathy.
If Tulsa was full of bad ass passionate fighters then most likely we would be quite popular with the line stations. :unsure:

Raptor can believe Tulsa has no power, and no fighters all he wants. I believe the exact opposite is true and that there is a large number of fed-up fighters in Tulsa just waiting for someone to lead and a unified direction of change to emerge for them to embrace.

I did not say Tulsa has NO power, or NO fighters, I said the line has the most power by far, they can cause a cancellation much faster than the Overhaul base in my OPINION.
Most line guys seem to have the same OPINION.
Needing a strong Leader is not a good excuse, someone who requires a strong leader in order to fight is not what I consider to be a fighter but instead a sheep that needs to be led, a real fighter does not need a strong leader he is a strong Leader.
I choose not to buy off on the, all I need is a strong leader excuse.
I for one do not follow I lead in my own direction and others can follow or go in another direction it is their choice.

I can't help but wonder why all the same E Board got back into office, they did not even campaign and they got right back in office, these are the same guys who were in office during the concession, why did they get back in office, one word ( APATHY ) look it up.
It will be interesting to see how many people show up at the Special Meeting, there are guys from the line who would love to come here and say their piece because they want to fight, That is probably why they will not be allowed in the door. :huh: I am thinking out of the 7,000 or so people we have here that less than a 1,000 will show up to raise hell, if that turns out to be the case that is not a good fighter sign :unsure:
face it Informer you know I am right you just don't want to believe it, but I think you do believe it, because I have seen it in your post's, you say you are concerned about getting hosed on the upcoming contract, you blame it on the TWU but you know full well that WE are the TWU, if the Members wanted to change things they could, they choose to be Apathetic about it. I am sorry if the truth hurts.
Ever wonder why we have not been on strike for forty years hhmmmm could be Apathy.

 

[AMFAMAN]

but an independent union would likely succeed. However, as long as the line majority wants to stick with an AMFA movement, don't look for a unified movement for change in Tulsa in any direction to begin.

Sounds like we need to sit down and throw some ideas around, because the truth is that the line would sign just about any card if that would have us. I'm open for anything that brings change and puts the membership back in charge. <_<

 

[Raptor]

Raptor,

I believe that there are many AMTs in Tulsa that when allowed to be given facts can make an informed decision. The problem is that many don't get the truth. Just look at the reaction of Local 514 when another Local puts facts out there! The comment about how Tulsa AMTs won't sign a card for AMFA because of what happened at UAL & NWA is proof positive Tulsa AMTs are spoon fed.

That is just my point Ken spoon fed meaning they are Apathetic and choose not to make up their own minds because that would require real effort, and maybe some research on their part instead of waiting for someone to hand them the information which as we know is not going to happen.

You do your own research, I do my own research, Apathetic people do not do their own research they wait till it falls in their hands and then they are to lazy and Apathetic to question what falls in their hands and do some more research to verify if it is the truth or not.
When I got the extension details from 565 the first thing I did was call them to verify it's accuracy and that it actually came from them, most people assumed it was fake because it did not have a signature, how many others do you think made the call.

I do claim to be Apathetic to a point these days but there are many people that are much worse than me in Tulsa, atleast I put some effort into trying to get accurate information and I am here on this bulletin board now, how many people in Tulsa do you think do either one of these. :0

 

[Raptor]

Ken I do think the Members should be better informed so they can make better decisions but the International has made it clear that is NOT going to happen, so unless you can figure out a way to make that happen, we will probably be in the dark right up until the TA like always.
One guy I talked to said he asked Louis about the extension and he replied he could not comment on it until it was approved by the Presidents council, he asked why it needed to be approved by the council, Louis replied that the council was not sure how much they wanted the Members to know at this time, he said that once Members seen it they would be mad and the council said they might want to bring that information out at another time when they want to make the Members mad.
In other words the council wanted to decide on when to make us mad and when to make us happy it is called Manipulation of emotions, it is completly wrong but that is how the Masses are Manipulated and that is how contracts are sold.

And Louis is just another one of the Boys, I didn't know much about him before but I am learning more all the time.

 

[Boomer]

Bob what you said about Burchette is pretty much what I heard as well, it is interesting how the rest of the story played out to get him back in, that part I did not know.

AMFAMAN I don't know if my view is the Majority or not but I have heard it quite alot lately, many people just do not have much faith in Burchette or the International or even Louis nor do they have much faith in Blue Zebras ( we aren't allowed to say the S word in Tulsa ) as you know :unsure:
so what is left, trying to keep what we have, we have already seen the companies offer on the extension thanks to local 565 that offer included some serious concessions, the company says we make as much and have the same benefits as the other Major Airlines Delta, United, Northwest, Continental and they have no Pension, so do you really think they are going to bump us much above them, let's be realistic, has that ever happened in the last 20 years, of course not.
We have Never been much above those airlines, as many have stated the only reason we got a good bump in 2001 was because AMFA got Northwest a good bump and we just followed them.
It will be interesting to see if there is a Major revolt from the line, if there is I would be fine with it myself, but we have not seen the line go against the International and Tulsa yet, remember the 2003 concession that would have been a good time for a revolt but nothing happened.
I don't have huge expectations for this next contract therefor I am hoping I won't be very disappointed, of course if we lose retiree medical or something else I certainly will be disappointed.
I understand that many people on the lines cannot retire because of the high cost of living but here in Tulsa many of us are looking forward to retiring very soon. there is a light at the end of this dark tunnel.

Raptor,
You have got to be kidding me, there is no way this is anthing but a troll.

Websters defines a raptor as a bird of prey feeding mainly on kill or carrion.

If this guy is for real, the stench will tell me what he's been eating.

 

[Raptor]

Raptor,
You have got to be kidding me, there is no way this is anthing but a troll.

Websters defines a raptor as a bird of prey feeding mainly on kill or carrion.

If this guy is for real, the stench will tell me what he's been eating.

Actually Boomer if you look at the picture it is a Vilociraptor the Dinosoar, Raptor for short, there was a time when I was like a Vilociraptor, but even raptors get old and tired. I'll pass the torch to guys like you take it and run.

 

[Raptor]

Interesting Article about United, Amr is mentioned as well, it appears that United did not have to file Bankruptcy they had another way out but chose to hose down their employee's instead.


United Taking a Flier With Pensions
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2007...h-pensions.aspx

Rich Duprey
October 4, 2007

Back in 2005, United Airlines -- later reincarnated as UAL (Nasdaq: UAUA) -- terminated its employee pension plans, creating the single largest corporate pension default in U.S. history.

The belief was that it simply had more liabilities than assets and was under bankruptcy protection already. If it was going to emerge from bankruptcy (which it did in February of 2006), it would need to reduce costs further. Putting the federal taxpayer on the hook for the $6.6 billion in pension plan costs through the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation, or PBGC, was an easy out.

It seems, though, that the unions, shareholders, creditors, government -- and, most importantly, the retirees -- got hoodwinked. United had an asset on its books that could have paid for the entire cost of the pension obligations -- and then some -- but according to the financial statements at the time, it was a negative asset, a cost.

Only now that United is considering profiting handsomely from those assets, maybe someone should go back and take a look at what was going on -- and make the airline responsible once again for its retirees' benefits.

Getting mileage from miles programs
Like a number of airlines these days, United is looking to spin off its customer loyalty program to raise money, because these programs are about the only thing making money for the major carriers. Although it's not a stand-alone company reporting results, the Mileage Plus program is estimated to have generated $600 million last year for United, and a Bear Stearns (NYSE: BSC) analyst figures it could be worth more than $7 billion if it's spun off.

American Airlines parent AMR (NYSE: AMR) may also spin off its AAdvantage program, as one large investor wants, as a way to better value the two businesses. AAdvantage is the industry's largest loyalty program, followed by Mileage Plus.

The airlines sell the mileages to merchants, who in turn use them as rewards for their customers. American Express (NYSE: AXP), Citigroup (NYSE: C), MasterCard (NYSE: MA), and Visa all use mileage programs as inducements for consumers to use their cards. They're so profitable because the airlines sell the miles for pennies, getting revenue up-front, and then the fliers later redeem the points at prices higher than what they probably would have paid for the tickets. It can also take years before they're redeemed, if at all.

Ever since Air Canada spun off its Aeroplan loyalty program, the programs have become a hot commodity for the airlines, and a potential quick fix of cash.

No accounting for United's plan
Yet one has to wonder why United didn't consider the loyalty program back in 2005 when it was putting the onus for paying its retirees onto the government.

Look through its annual report for 2004, and you won't find the loyalty program listed as a richly valued asset. In fact, it's not mentioned anywhere at all under assets. United does say it recorded an $840 million liability to account for miles being redeemed in the future, so you'd think that the Mileage Plus program was costing United money. You would, of course, be wrong.

In 2005, when Air Canada sold off a 12.5% stake in its Aeroplan loyalty plan for a price that valued the entire frequent flier program at about $2 billion Canadian, United's management must have had a pretty good idea that it, too, was sitting on valuable asset.

Putting the toothpaste back into the tube
Now United wants to profit from this richly valued asset. I have a better idea: Let's give the pensions back to the airlines, rather than letting them benefit at taxpayers' expense.

Executives were granted millions of dollars in stock awards upon the company's emergence from bankruptcy. CEO Glenn Tilton alone received more than half a million shares valued at more than $20 million -- and selling the loyalty program would certainly enhance the stock's value for him and other top executives.

Can the PBGC give the pensions back? Sure it can!

Under Section 4047 of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (ERISA), the PBGC can order a company to restore its pension obligations when the company's financial health has improved. In fact, it did that with steelmaker LTV back in 1990.

It's hard for me to believe that in the year and a half that United has been out of bankruptcy, its loyalty program has skyrocketed in value so much. Instead, this has been a dormant asset that's only now being brought to light, because of the value it can return to current shareholders. Of course, pre-bankruptcy shareholders will realize nothing.

Yet if the PBGC is to ensure that current shareholders don't unduly profit at taxpayers' expense, it'll have to move quickly, before the loyalty program is spun off. If the PBGC blithely allows a spinoff to go forward, I'd consider it in default on its obligations -- a situation at least as bad as United's own role in this.

 

[Raptor]

Interesting Article about United, Amr is mentioned as well, it appears that United did not have to file Bankruptcy they had another way out but chose to hose down their employee's instead.
United Taking a Flier With Pensions
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2007...h-pensions.aspx

Rich Duprey
October 4, 2007

Back in 2005, United Airlines -- later reincarnated as UAL (Nasdaq: UAUA) -- terminated its employee pension plans, creating the single largest corporate pension default in U.S. history.

The belief was that it simply had more liabilities than assets and was under bankruptcy protection already. If it was going to emerge from bankruptcy (which it did in February of 2006), it would need to reduce costs further. Putting the federal taxpayer on the hook for the $6.6 billion in pension plan costs through the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation, or PBGC, was an easy out.

It seems, though, that the unions, shareholders, creditors, government -- and, most importantly, the retirees -- got hoodwinked. United had an asset on its books that could have paid for the entire cost of the pension obligations -- and then some -- but according to the financial statements at the time, it was a negative asset, a cost.

Only now that United is considering profiting handsomely from those assets, maybe someone should go back and take a look at what was going on -- and make the airline responsible once again for its retirees' benefits.

Getting mileage from miles programs
Like a number of airlines these days, United is looking to spin off its customer loyalty program to raise money, because these programs are about the only thing making money for the major carriers. Although it's not a stand-alone company reporting results, the Mileage Plus program is estimated to have generated $600 million last year for United, and a Bear Stearns (NYSE: BSC) analyst figures it could be worth more than $7 billion if it's spun off.

American Airlines parent AMR (NYSE: AMR) may also spin off its AAdvantage program, as one large investor wants, as a way to better value the two businesses. AAdvantage is the industry's largest loyalty program, followed by Mileage Plus.

The airlines sell the mileages to merchants, who in turn use them as rewards for their customers. American Express (NYSE: AXP), Citigroup (NYSE: C), MasterCard (NYSE: MA), and Visa all use mileage programs as inducements for consumers to use their cards. They're so profitable because the airlines sell the miles for pennies, getting revenue up-front, and then the fliers later redeem the points at prices higher than what they probably would have paid for the tickets. It can also take years before they're redeemed, if at all.

Ever since Air Canada spun off its Aeroplan loyalty program, the programs have become a hot commodity for the airlines, and a potential quick fix of cash.

No accounting for United's plan
Yet one has to wonder why United didn't consider the loyalty program back in 2005 when it was putting the onus for paying its retirees onto the government.

Look through its annual report for 2004, and you won't find the loyalty program listed as a richly valued asset. In fact, it's not mentioned anywhere at all under assets. United does say it recorded an $840 million liability to account for miles being redeemed in the future, so you'd think that the Mileage Plus program was costing United money. You would, of course, be wrong.

In 2005, when Air Canada sold off a 12.5% stake in its Aeroplan loyalty plan for a price that valued the entire frequent flier program at about $2 billion Canadian, United's management must have had a pretty good idea that it, too, was sitting on valuable asset.

Putting the toothpaste back into the tube
Now United wants to profit from this richly valued asset. I have a better idea: Let's give the pensions back to the airlines, rather than letting them benefit at taxpayers' expense.

Executives were granted millions of dollars in stock awards upon the company's emergence from bankruptcy. CEO Glenn Tilton alone received more than half a million shares valued at more than $20 million -- and selling the loyalty program would certainly enhance the stock's value for him and other top executives.

Can the PBGC give the pensions back? Sure it can!

Under Section 4047 of the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (ERISA), the PBGC can order a company to restore its pension obligations when the company's financial health has improved. In fact, it did that with steelmaker LTV back in 1990.

It's hard for me to believe that in the year and a half that United has been out of bankruptcy, its loyalty program has skyrocketed in value so much. Instead, this has been a dormant asset that's only now being brought to light, because of the value it can return to current shareholders. Of course, pre-bankruptcy shareholders will realize nothing.

Yet if the PBGC is to ensure that current shareholders don't unduly profit at taxpayers' expense, it'll have to move quickly, before the loyalty program is spun off. If the PBGC blithely allows a spinoff to go forward, I'd consider it in default on its obligations -- a situation at least as bad as United's own role in this.

No comments on this article :unsure:

 

[TWU-GOTTA-GO]

No comments on this article :unsure:

Yeah, it's about 2 weeks old, previously discussed and have found that UAL and the PBGC already have a waiver in place for the return of the pensions, other than that, it has nothing to do with "censorship of info by birdsh*t" topic being discussed.