CLT Airport bets a billion on future amid US Airways concerns

[luvthe9]

Here is some old O&D data but I'm sure its very consistent you,

2009 Data

Metro Daily O&D total total O&D O&D % # of Airports

New York 127,801 51,883,694 23,131,981 44.60% 6 airports
LA Area 119,346 38,092,034 21,601,626 56.70% 6 airports <-----
DC Area 91,733 29,917,661 16,603,673 55.50% 3 airports <-----
SF Area 87,419 26,179,300 15,822,839 60.44% 3 airports <-----
Chicago 86,821 39,281,585 15,714,601 40.00% 2 airports
Miami 79,636 31,262,044 14,414,116 46.10% 3 airports
Las Vegas 73,138 20,224,090 13,237,978 65.50%
Orlando 68,040 18,211,975 12,315,240 67.60% 2 airports
Dallas/Ft.Worth 59,577 31,149,065 10,783,437 34.60% 2 airports
Atlanta 56,645 43,008,154 10,252,745 23.80%
Phoenix 54,040 18,968,897 9,781,240 51.60%
Denver 53,747 24,337,554 9,728,207 40.00%
Boston 44,673 12,068,312 8,085,813 67.00%
Seattle 43,376 14,787,443 7,851,056 53.10%
Philadelphia 41,860 14,878,298 7,576,660 50.90%
Houston 39,021 23,606,848 7,062,801 29.90% 2 airports
Tampa 38,865 8,888,162 7,034,565 79.20%
San Diego 36,242 8,171,820 6,559,802 80.30%
Minneapolis 34,399 16,173,119 6,226,219 38.50%
Detroit 33,128 15,715,346 5,996,168 38.20%
Salt Lake City 22,696 9,988,837 4,107,976 41.10%
St. Louis 22,361 6,258,829 4,047,341 64.70%
Portland 22,144 6,116,995 4,008,064 65.50%
Sacramento 20,175 4,356,274 3,651,675 83.80%
Kansas City 19,973 4,685,648 3,615,113 77.20%
Charlotte 19,562 17,215,648 3,540,722 20.60%

Now lets compare it to PHX, Oh boy!!!!!!

 

[WorldTraveler]

We all know you'll never be convinced.

I was surprised to see ATL at 23.8%, slightly above CLT at 20.6%.

No, it's not lost on me.
There is nothing that says that CLT can't be a very strong hub. I have never said that CLT is not a viable hub or cannot be a strong contributor to a larger airline network.
But the reality hasn't changed that US is a much smaller player than DL and UA on the east coast and as much as you or anyone would like to believe otherwise the slot deal only will increase that gap between the DL and US.
CLT's future is tied to the airline that operates a hub there, not the city itself.
IAH and DFW are essentially competing hubs with many of the same traffic flows; same can be said for DTW, MSP, and ORD... but they all are attached to much larger airlines....
it's the same issue that US is too small to be big but too big to be small.... and hasn't succeeded in either niche. I'm not the first person to say that - and Parker confirms that by his efforts to acquire AA even while telling the world that US can make it on its own.

 

[wings396]

Yes WT, we all know that nothing is or ever will be superior to Delta or Atlanta. Your chest has to be getting sore from pounding it so much already. I think that we (US) should just pack it in, and go away so that Delta can have it all. Now that I think of it, what would you do then? You remind me of a guy that keeps looking at himself in a mirror all day, and lives to tell the world just how good looking he is compared to everyone else. I have been with this company for years, and it is what it is. I also had a family member who once worked for Delta, and they constantly remind me that Delta is not what it once was on the employee end of things either. Based on some of your posts, it appears as if you don't even work for DL, which makes all of your cheerleading even more Insane.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm sorry if you see it as chest-pounding but these are the simple realities of the industry... in the midst of a discussion about CLT's plans, it is quite relevant to discuss the merits of CLT as a hub operated by US, the smallest network airline in the US.
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You didn't seem to take offense at the comment regarding DFW and IAH coexisting even though both are but operated as hubs by airlines larger than US or that DTW, ORD, and MSP are all operated by larger airlines than US.

 

[Move2CLT]

Now lets compare it to PHX, Oh boy!!!!!!

The list is right there luv. If you put the bone down, you'd see PHX comes in above PHL and CLT.

 

[wings396]

I'm sorry if you see it as chest-pounding but these are the simple realities of the industry... in the midst of a discussion about CLT's plans, it is quite relevant to discuss the merits of CLT as a hub operated by US, the smallest network airline in the US.
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You didn't seem to take offense at the comment regarding DFW and IAH coexisting even though both are but operated as hubs by airlines larger than US or that DTW, ORD, and MSP are all operated by larger airlines than US.

I, along with most others here do see it as "Chest Pounding", because regardless of the topic, Mother Delta is always superior in some fashion. At this point, Who the Hell cares so much about Delta, except you? Since CLT is the only other Hub that shares a region with ATL, you are very concerned about a possible US/AA hook-up, because you know if that happens, that they will build CLT up even more. That equates to a stronger competitor for Delta in ATL, and you can't stand the thought of that happening, thus all of your AAnti US/AA propaganda. Are you Anderson's Kid or something?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Again, I'm sorry if that is the way you interpret it... but you miss the fact that I have repeatedly said that the network industry has consolidated and DL and UA have largely benefitted from that. I have also made plenty of mention that AA has a very strong foundation on which it is restructuring itself.. in fact, I have used that to note MULTIPLE times to you and others that the chances are far greater that AA will be successful in restructuring on its own, a part from any influence from either DL or US or any other party - but you haven't picked that up while thinking that I am picking on US.
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The facts remain that US runs a revenue deficit to the rest of the network industry but it is able to maintain some level of profitability because of very low costs, including some of the lowest salaries in the industry. You also cannot deny that US has lost market share on the east coast to DL, and aside from a merger with AA, there is no evidence to show that is going to turn around.
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Disconnect your personal emotions and recognize that US has a dark strategic outlook in front of it, it is pinning its hopes on an acquisition with AA which probably will be able to successfully restructure on its own, and US still has to deal with the fact that DL continues to grow its size on the east coast.
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Those are the facts of the industry and they are highly relevant to US and its future.
There would be a whole lot less doubt about the success of CLT as a hub if it belonged to AA or UA. For now, though, neither are interested... and US has to deal with the continuing competitive pressures on the east coast, including from DL and to a lesser extent, WN.

 

[Dog Wonder]

there is not much traffic in LAS.... Much less Pit.... It is all about org boardings... not connecting... Pit... is not a large city.... there is no money there.... CLT is a big city... so is PHL... PHL used to be a larger money maker for originating traffic but now CLT wins.. that is why the company is now making more new international destinations out of CLT

.

Pittsburgh metropolitan area 2,360,000 people. Charlotte metropolitan area 1,795,000 people.

You need to get out of Charlotte someday. Big world out here.

 

[Jester]

No Jester, it's got nothing to do with the airlines merging or not merging. A city needs "X" amount of passenger capacity. A city will need "Y" in 10 years, and "Z" in 20 years. Because of the way budgeting and grants work airports plan FAR in advance. The only glitch has been the current economic situation which broke all the rules and predictions. Once we get past that people will again be complaining that the airports are too busy and crowded.

And 5 years from now there will still be closed off sections of LAS, unless those sections are then determined to be "obsolete" and torned down in the process, thus removing excess gates. T3 is a white elephant that was approved when the economy was strong, when AW had a LAS hub, and when the bond money was authorized so use it or lose it!

I talk to some of the former LAS guys, and some of them thought given how close the existing International gates (soon to be torn down) are located to the A-Gates (which are now closed due to excess numbers of gates), if it wouldn't have been cheaper to build an underground connecting tunnel, as the current push is for more international arrivals? I examined google maps, and it doesn't look to be more than maybe 300 feet between the two terminals across the ramp areas, and a hell of a lot cheaper than a new state-of-the-art $2 billion, 17-gate terminal which won't be entirely occupied upon opening.

So Suggests Jester.

 

[DCaf]

WT, I don't know if anything you posited in post # 22 is true. I assume there are places on the east coast where market share fluctuates DL's way, but not DCA, PHL, CLT. What defines east coast anyway? East of the Mississippi? 10 miles from the beach? If you define east coast as ATL and LGA, then you win.

I remember reading, many years ago, from Delta's customer service manual, where it said never be critical of another airline. Times have changed, I know, but the PR department trashing of other carriers goes contrary to that admonition, doesn't it? You can deny that that's where the smug superiority comes from, but I'll always be suspicious. And if you deign to respond to this, and I don't care if you do, try to ratchet down the condescension.

 

[WorldTraveler]

There are multiple ways the US can be divided but I'm not sure if there is any region in which US is larger than DL... only if you include DCA and PHL but not include NYC can you say that US is larger than DL; only if you include the Carolinas but not include GA and FLA....
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If you can show me some data that shows how US is larger, feel free to share it.
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I'm sorry if you perceive that saying something truthful is denigrating anyone... it is still truth and truth is not meant to be hurtful even if is not what someone wants to hear.

 

[DCaf]

There are multiple ways the US can be divided but I'm not sure if there is any region in which US is larger than DL... only if you include DCA and PHL but not include NYC can you say that US is larger than DL; only if you include the Carolinas but not include GA and FLA....
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If you can show me some data that shows how US is larger, feel free to share it.
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I'm sorry if you perceive that saying something truthful is denigrating anyone... it is still truth and truth is not meant to be hurtful even if is not what someone wants to hear.

I'm not hurt by any of your "truth". I'm tougher than my "handle" may infer. I just feel a lot of your stuff is baloney carved Delta style.

 

[signals]

Is it me, or would a Delta/US Airways merger make for a Southeast and Northeast dominance that will benefit both airlines. Perhaps that is what Parker saw B) It would probably ease air traffic around Atlanta that I heard can be brutal during rush hour

 

[WorldTraveler]

Is it me, or would a Delta/US Airways merger make for a Southeast and Northeast dominance that will benefit both airlines. Perhaps that is what Parker saw B) It would probably ease air traffic around Atlanta that I heard can be brutal during rush hour

yeah... which was why it was a bad idea when US proposed it and why DL will never really do it either... if DL wants to get into an antitrust battle, they will do it over assets that add significantly to its network.

 

[signals]

yeah... which was why it was a bad idea when US proposed it and why DL will never really do it either... if DL wants to get into an antitrust battle, they will do it over assets that add significantly to its network.

Oh, pitosh, WT. There are ways around the antitrust issues. I still believe that a DL/AA merger is more likely than an AA/US merger. Stop service at certain areas, cut service at others, etc., don't tell me there aren't ways around the obvious 😉