Clt Vs. Phl
- Thread starter Seatacus
- Start date
MarkMyWords said:
As a customer I assure you that customers dread going through Philly. It has been a nightmare for a long time and has let me personally down on more than one occassion and I do not fly that often. Flying out of DCA I consistently connect through PIT OR CLT. They are friendly, smile, and seem significantly more approachable.
Mgmt is part of U's problem and obviuosly failed the staff by not staffing correctly for the holidays. Staff screwing over their comrades by not showing up to work when scheduled / on call and letting them handle their work is a true sign of lack of respect & team work. I hope they gave the no shows a thorough beating. If there is a way to close Philly, re-direct good staff, and let the trash go in the dumpster I am in full support. The only people that suffered last weekend were the quality employees that picked up the slack and your paying customers whom HAD confidence in your airline.
The comments on this board blaming the customer are amazing. The mentality justifying these type of actions is incredible, but no shock from Philly. I wish I could get my hands on your resume so I could file it accordingly when reviewing future hires. I assure you, if I see U & Philly, I will be hard pressed to even give it a second glance. As bad as it sucks, you have a choice.... Stay and work or move on.... Sitting complacent pitying your situation will get you no where. BE HAPPY TO HAVE A CHECK, today.
I hope you all handle the ball in your first play off game as well as did everyone's luggage. In typical fashion (historical sports & last weekend at U) they will choke when it counts in the last minute.
Happy New Year.
RowUnderDCA
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I'm not an insider. I've flown through both PHL and CLT many times, I read this board and other sources of employee opinion/experiences. Here's my guess:
PHL is infected with a personal/social influence racket. (I don't mean the mob.)
Codependency is as common in human nature as envy or arrogance. In any social endeavor or team activity various folks of various personalities and characters come together. In any large group, you'll find folks that primarily look to form social/emotional and sub-team groups to protect themselves (see any jr. high school cafeteria). When you have a corporate/team activity with poor leadership, a relatively small group of people can find each other and form influence and intimidation rackets that gather power to themselves to protect themselves from the actions of leadership (out of insecurity or a real desire to get away with something). Intimidation is not just physical. It can be social and in a team environment, where there is a 'family' dynamic of a supervisor judging employuees and handing out benefits, it can be work related. That's where you get some ass-kissing and cliques.
My suspicion is that bad hiring practices have resulted in a racket at PHL. So when adversity strikes, instead of real team work and group sacrificing, you get credit seeking, blame shifting and above all the preservation of protecting the power of the racket. Those that don't go along.. by pointing out the deception, lying, slacking etc, have to think at least twice about whether they are going to ruin their careers or well being, of just feel persecuted.
If U has not stood up to and eradicated this situation for decades, maybe throwing away the keys and walking away from PHL would be best, I don't know.
So, in short, I think that years of failed leadership (and perhaps leadership complicity) in PHL has resulted in the accumulation of a good number of folks that are not suited in their basic character to be part of a high performing team under pressure. These folks, instead turn to 'clique' and 'racket' behaviour. It is a truism that dysfunctional labor union environments are susceptible to this. They aren't the cause, but the 'petrie dish' in which it grows.
PHL is infected with a personal/social influence racket. (I don't mean the mob.)
Codependency is as common in human nature as envy or arrogance. In any social endeavor or team activity various folks of various personalities and characters come together. In any large group, you'll find folks that primarily look to form social/emotional and sub-team groups to protect themselves (see any jr. high school cafeteria). When you have a corporate/team activity with poor leadership, a relatively small group of people can find each other and form influence and intimidation rackets that gather power to themselves to protect themselves from the actions of leadership (out of insecurity or a real desire to get away with something). Intimidation is not just physical. It can be social and in a team environment, where there is a 'family' dynamic of a supervisor judging employuees and handing out benefits, it can be work related. That's where you get some ass-kissing and cliques.
My suspicion is that bad hiring practices have resulted in a racket at PHL. So when adversity strikes, instead of real team work and group sacrificing, you get credit seeking, blame shifting and above all the preservation of protecting the power of the racket. Those that don't go along.. by pointing out the deception, lying, slacking etc, have to think at least twice about whether they are going to ruin their careers or well being, of just feel persecuted.
If U has not stood up to and eradicated this situation for decades, maybe throwing away the keys and walking away from PHL would be best, I don't know.
So, in short, I think that years of failed leadership (and perhaps leadership complicity) in PHL has resulted in the accumulation of a good number of folks that are not suited in their basic character to be part of a high performing team under pressure. These folks, instead turn to 'clique' and 'racket' behaviour. It is a truism that dysfunctional labor union environments are susceptible to this. They aren't the cause, but the 'petrie dish' in which it grows.
CLT was the Piedmont hub and was selected by Bill Howard because it was not congested and flights could arrive and depart in a timely manner. Howard and his group did not rally care that much about the CLT O&D traffic because it was simply a connecting point. All Wolfe did was critize CLT as a hub because of poor O&D but it doesn't experience the problems that PHL does because there are no ATC problems in CLT and it is not congested like PHL. CLT was Piedmont's center piece and there were expections from every employee group from Mr. Tom Davis, Piedmont's founder. He was a very personable individual and in fact sat on a baggage cart an drank a coke with me once. You see he was the type of person that gave respect and treated you well and would tell you the airline's success and future depended on you and taking care of the passenger and if everyone one put their best efforts together then we could be successfuil against the bigger carriers. What allowed this to work was employees could actually see the results and I don't care who you are if you work in this business it really gives you a special feeling to help them and see their appreciation. All groups of employees worked together toward a common goal and it was a llt of fun and very rewarding. One major difference was the lines of communication to upper management. If you had an idea to improve something they wanted to know about it. It might not be used but if it fine tuned a part of the operation then it would be implemented. Unfortunately with the merger this went away because upper management knew what they were doing and they had all the answers. In fact they spent more time back stabbing each other so they could move up than they did trying to run a smooth operation. It has not changed and the only way it will is to clean house. Militaristic Crellin and that entir department should be shipped our to sea. A CEO must be brought in and surround himself with individuals that can interact effectively with employees face to face. There should be a visit from the regional at least once a month and he should spend a day or so and walk around and talk to employees and determine for himself what is going on in that station and if the manager and superivsors are doing their job. Those are only a few of the things to bring the key decision making people face to face and on the same level as the front line employees. Screw the conference calls, get off their butts and go see for themselves. I am convinced that our employees would rally behind a group of leaders like this and if things got turned around and the company began to make money I think a group of leaders with this type character would be more than willing to revisit any contract in place to help employees get some wages and benefits back. I am sure there are many that will disagree with me but I have seen first hand what really good management is but not since Aug 5, 1989. Here's to hoping that 2005 will bring us some of these type individuals so we can finally get on with the show and have the success we should have been enjoying all along.
GadgetFreak
Advanced
phl/yyz said:
The O&D traffic is at LGA but at least US management wasnt that stupid. LGA employees are great in my experience but ATC delays are terrible. PHL has bad ATC delays and far too many employees who are worse than useless. It is a disastorous place to put a hub and make people connect. No amount of O&D traffic could compensate for the fact that no one else with any sense would fly the airline if they have to connect there.
Dont call me Shirley
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seasenor said:
Welcome aboard, seasenor! Thanks for your business - and input. And happy new year.
Fom HadEnuff:
All groups of employees worked together toward a common goal and it was a llt of fun and very rewarding. One major difference was the lines of communication to upper management. If you had an idea to improve something they wanted to know about it. It might not be used but if it fine tuned a part of the operation then it would be implemented.
Many moons ago, whne I was a freshly hired, junior part timer in a west coast station, I had a suggestion for some information to be added to PACER (the PI res system). I told my stn mgr, expecting to be told to fill out a memo or suggestion form that he would in turn send in to HDQ. Instead, he gave the phone number for Carl Curmley - the director of passenger procedures. Whne I called the number, Carl answered his own phone; I gave him the sugestion. It was added within two days!
In spite of the preceeding anecdote, I don't mean to contribute to this thread becoming yet another rehash of the AL/PI Civll War. But there are clear differences between PHL and CLT and for that matter between PIT and PHL.
PHL's ATC situation (as noted by MMW) is a big part of the problem but do not fully explain the "Philly Phactor". And the Philly Phactor must be addressed if this airline is to survive!
GadgetFreak
Advanced
phl/yyz said:
Not just NY but I imagine DC as well. Point is that it is a terrible place for a hub, partly
because of the delays.
CLT is by far the better hub to experience. Having long lived in State College and endured SCE-PHL connections, I can add the following about PHL:
* Two hour long lines for de-icing, thereby missing follow on connections
* Inbound from Europe, waiting a half hour for a jetway attendant. They were on break at 3:30 in the afternoon (when most of the westbound trans-Atlantics are arriving).
* Ten years to build the third runway, because the city "government" had scarfed the funding from the FEDs for building it originally.
* I won't even go into what the airlines are charged for gate rental, garbage removal, and other services. Makes the Sopranno's look like boy scouts.
On the plus side, the food court at PHL is tops.
* Two hour long lines for de-icing, thereby missing follow on connections
* Inbound from Europe, waiting a half hour for a jetway attendant. They were on break at 3:30 in the afternoon (when most of the westbound trans-Atlantics are arriving).
* Ten years to build the third runway, because the city "government" had scarfed the funding from the FEDs for building it originally.
* I won't even go into what the airlines are charged for gate rental, garbage removal, and other services. Makes the Sopranno's look like boy scouts.
On the plus side, the food court at PHL is tops.
Jennyann
Advanced
PHL is known as "the red-headed step child".......ATC puts it last after NY and DC.GadgetFreak said:
And why in the hell cant they just clear us to land without flying way the hell out then vectoring us in..............It takes an extra 30 min every time!!! :angry:
firstamendment
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The company is so pro PHL because of it's O&D. I would love to see the figures on how much we have lost in PHL due to the poor layout, delays, some mob rampers (well, enough to cause hell), etc, etc. It seems to me that the place just ain't working. How about focusing on the cities that DO make money...the biz centers and take the rest to PIT and CLT? It's time to rethink this entire PHILLY FACTOR thing. Anyone with a brain can see that there is too much chaos on a good day. How can we possibly be making money there giving the huge problems?
If the company is hell bent on not having PIT as a hub, at least move the transatlantic flights to CLT where there is some sense of pride and care about getting THOSE flights out. I mean, those flight carry folks from all over the world with STAR ALLIANCE and they have to greet that mess in PHL? POOR!! :down:
If the company is hell bent on not having PIT as a hub, at least move the transatlantic flights to CLT where there is some sense of pride and care about getting THOSE flights out. I mean, those flight carry folks from all over the world with STAR ALLIANCE and they have to greet that mess in PHL? POOR!! :down:
WestCoastGuy
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firstamendment said:
It seems most of the money we take in the front door at PHL, goes out the back door when the flights finally arrive at their destination. Those are the stations that write the checks to the customers, spend money for baggage delivery and issue hotel vouchers and meals to customers who misconnect to the next flights. Not to mention taking the brunt of the customers frustrations and aggrivations at USAir from problems that were all started in PHL. Most of our customers now HATE going thru PHL.
