CNN In the Money

[Charlie_Tuna]

Why not ditch your PHL hub as it seems to make daily negative press for customer service, thus bringing down the image of the remainder of the airline...

Thats easy.... profits

 

[Itestwell]

Why not ditch your PHL hub as it seems to make daily negative press for customer service, thus bringing down the image of the remainder of the airline..


Revenue stream, maybe?

Why not ditch your PHL hub as it seems to make daily negative press for customer service, thus bringing down the image of the remainder of the airline...

I guess you could say the same about JFK and ATL for DL as well? Eek......

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/columnist/b...ancatelli_x.htm

 

[WorldTraveler]

Let's get a few things straight.

DL has reduced the fleet by nearly 100 aircraft but has reduced ASMs by single digits. They are using their fleet much more efficiently. Fleet count comparisons mean nothing.

DL hasn't presented a POR so no one knows what DL will do. Problem for Dougie is that once DL presents a plan, US can't make an offer. So US made an offer. All DL has to do is trump it - and they likely will.

But this proposal is far more than just numbers. Any other network carrier proposal might have some legitimacy. But US and DL have way too much overlap. You cannot possible whack out pieces of either DL or US' route systems to meet antitrust concerns and still have a viable airline. DL and US are both big in the NE and all the places that connect to them because those routes make money. You can't rip out major pieces of any airline and expect the finished product to work. DL's creditors can clearly see through this proposal.

They can also see that this attempt is nothing but a money grab by a couple of executives and a whole bunch of Wall Street execs and analysts. The airline industry hasn't made money on an operating basis since it was started - the only way to make money is to do deals. It absolutely shocks me that the US and HP people who have been screwed by their management are unable to see the tactics being used. Apparently DL employees are smart enough to see what is going on and will not allow themselves to be raped by a bunch of corporate raiders.

The fundamental problem w/ any merger proposal that could be put forward between two network carriers not facing liquidation is that the only way to make them work for financial interests is to remove capacity. However, removing capacity is the last thing that communities, governments, consumer groups, and manufacturers want. The chance of any consolidation between network carriers happening when both parties are capable of standing on their own is pretty slim at best. Remember that the only reason the HP-US merger happened is because US could not have survived. Parker gets all excited about turning another deal while failing to admit that there isn't a single airline in the industry that is not capable of continuing to exist on its own.

There are no mergers needed in the industry and none will happen.

Period. I'll be sure and let you know when the climate changes.

 

[PhxMama]

AS I have said several time, I dont know if anything will happen but if everyone is so sure DL with just come up with a better game plan, why all the fuss and why the rush to upset all the employees with wearing buttons. It just seems that if nothing can or will happen whats with all fuss?

 

[WorldTraveler]

because the employees are part of the plan to make sure nothing can happen. Neither DL or its employees are naive enough to think that money doesn't talk and that some of the people who hold some influence over its future aren't motivated by it. But those employees are also fully capable of making those short-sighted people who would be willing to sell out DL employees see that DL employees will do nothing to help their investments and in fact will destroy it if need be. Because that is exactly what DP or any other corporate raider will do to DL employees. Just like he has done to US' employees.

 

[PhxMama]

Wages at US may not be the highest in the industry but DP has kept US/HP employees employed. Hopefully, wages and profitability will increase and if they dont at least employees are receiving a paycheck while they can educate themselves and move on. Its better to have a job while looking for another one or go back to school to prepare for a career change. I dont think any US employee will say DP has "destroyed" the airline. Thats not true and its not fair. I could think of far worse situations for Delta employees. I just think its too soon to get too worked up over it. Enjoy your night.

 

[MMB]

I could think of far worse situations for Delta employees. I just think its too soon to get too worked up over it. Enjoy your night.

For example???

 

[hp_fa]

"DL hasn't presented a POR so no one knows what DL will do. Problem for Dougie is that once DL presents a plan, US can't make an offer. So US made an offer. All DL has to do is trump it - and they likely will."

Delta can present a plan and the creditors vote. All they have to do is vote no and the judge will then need to decide whether or not to end the exclusivity period.

As for LCC not being able to make an offer, you are technically correct but in reality very wrong. If DL presents their plan all LCC needs to do is publish their offer on Page 3 of the Wall Street Journal.

Exclusivity, in this bankruptcy, is an illusion.

 

[ralphcramden]

"DL hasn't presented a POR so no one knows what DL will do. Problem for Dougie is that once DL presents a plan, US can't make an offer. So US made an offer. All DL has to do is trump it - and they likely will."

Delta can present a plan and the creditors vote. All they have to do is vote no and the judge will then need to decide whether or not to end the exclusivity period.

As for LCC not being able to make an offer, you are technically correct but in reality very wrong. If DL presents their plan all LCC needs to do is publish their offer on Page 3 of the Wall Street Journal.

Exclusivity, in the bankruptcy, is an illusion.

hp fa,

How dare you question the airline industry's greatest mind. Don't you know that the unsecured creditors have blown off Dougie and are waiting with baited breath to see the new Delta plan?????

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[700UW]

WT,

You are not a lawyer, stop pretending.

Anyone can present the court with a POR, nothing prohibits that from happening.

DL has the right to file the first plan, that is all.

Is that too hard to understand?

And it is all about money, the creditors and the judge have to ensure that the creditors get the most money back and the company has a viable business plan, the employees have no power. You cant destroy DL without destroying yourself, you cant walk as you are non-union and you will be terminated and plenty are out there to replace you faster then your head would spin.

How many airline chapter 11 cases have you been involved with?

I have been through both with US, sat in the courtroom many times, talked with our lawyers for the IAM and was part of the negotiating committee.

It is all about the money and paying off the creditors, not what the employees want. Keep drinking the koolade and you will be in for a rude awakening.

Let me educate you a bit:

After the bankruptcy petition is filed and the court enters an order of relief, a creditors' committee will be formed from the debtor's unsecured creditors. Typically, the initial creditors' committee will work with the debtor and the court trustee to formulate the reorganization plan. In a larger Chapter 11 proceeding, there will typically be more than one creditors' committee because different creditors will have differing interests.

After the order for relief, the debtor has 120 days to formulate and file a plan of reorganization with the bankruptcy court. If the debtor fails to submit a plan during the 120 day period, or if creditors fail to consent to the debtor's plan during the first 180 days, any of the creditors can submit a plan. The court is sometimes faced with conflicting plans.

A plan of reorganization must designate classes and interests under the plan and what these classes of creditors will receive under the plan. For example, secured creditors might be one class, unsecured trade creditors a second, and employees a third. The plan must be fair and equitable and must provide an adequate means for its own execution. Generally, all identified classes must accept the plan of reorganization by a majority vote, which also comprises at least two thirds of the total claims within each class. Finally, the bankruptcy court must approve the proposed reorganization plan after determining that it is in the best interests of the creditors.

Although each class of creditors must normally approve the reorganization plan by majority vote, the bankruptcy court can still approve a plan over the objections of one or more classes of creditors. This power is called the "cram down" power.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

WT,

You are not a lawyer, stop pretending.

I have been through both with US, sat in the courtroom many times, talked with our lawyers for the IAM and was part of the negotiating committee.


Anyone can present the court with a POR, nothing prohibits that from happening.

DL has the right to file the first plan, that is all.

Is that too hard to understand?

You are not a lawyer, stop pretending. (Also stop making it about someone and stick to the topic)

Excuse me if I am wrong but as long as Delta is granted extentions doesn't is hold exclusive right to submit the POR?

All the info you need on Delta BK

A Jan 5 hearing am sure there is newer one but shows the motion to extend the POR as a uncontested matter with rights of exclusivity

Exclusivity, in this bankruptcy, is an illusion.

Depends on how you look at it.

 

[700UW]

Charlie,

Stalking me? Keep up your new M.O. trying to make it about me.

Like I said, go read it again, once DL files their POR anyother creditor(s) can file their competing plan. DL has the right to file their POR before any other creditor.

Funny how you skipped the legal parts since it made your post not accurate.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

Charlie,

Stalking me? Keep up your new M.O. trying to make it about me.

Like I said, go read it again, once DL files their POR anyother creditor(s) can file their competing plan. DL has the right to file their POR before any other creditor.

Funny how you skipped the legal parts since it made your post not accurate.

You keep trying to make it about others don't you? Now you try to make it about you and stalking. It is not stalking but debating all you misleading posts. Stop it and just debate the issues will you?

Funny how you don't read what you paste.

Answer these questions.
1. Can a POR be submitted by anyone else during Delta's exclusivity period? If yes prove it
2. If the POR that Delta submitted during its exclusivity period is accepted by creditors can another POR be submitted? If yes prove it
3. How many POR's have been submitted to date? If yes prove it

Skipped what legal parts and what part of my post was not accurate?

This? Excuse me if I am wrong but as long as Delta is granted extentions doesn't is hold exclusive right to submit the POR?

It was question how can it be not accurate?

This? You are not a lawyer, stop pretending. (Also stop making it about someone and stick to the topic)

That is certainly accurate you can't contest that.

The only thing left is the links to actual legal dockets and sites. I guess thats it those are not accurate.

 

[700UW]

I never said a competing POR can be submitted before DL submits their own. (dont put words into my posts that are not there)

If the plan is accepted by the creditors a competing plan can be submitted if the judge rejects the POR from DL and the creditors that have approved it. That is the only scenario.

The plan has to be approved by the judge in order for it to be accepted by all parties.

And if you want to find out info, you prove it I am not your information source, if you want to disprove me you go seek the information.

 

[Charlie_Tuna]

I never said a competing POR can be submitted before DL submits their own. (dont put words into my posts that are not there)

If the plan is accepted by the creditors a competing plan can be submitted if the judge rejects the POR from DL and the creditors that have approved it. That is the only scenario.

The plan has to be approved by the judge in order for it to be accepted by all parties.

Thank you for finally admitting you were wrong by posting this and I qoute

"Anyone can present the court with a POR, nothing prohibits that from happening."

Can something prohibit anyone from presenting a POR to court? Yes there is. First exclusivity and second acceptance by creditors and court of Delta's first POR.

You can't wiggle out of this one because you said and I qoute "If the plan is accepted by the creditors a competing plan can be submitted if the judge rejects the POR from DL and the creditors that have approved it. That is the only scenario."