Code Share - a gimmick that is now old in the new world

[Old PSA]

Code share and alliances. Dave says thats the way to go. Its going to makes US hundreds of millions more. And all the old airlines are doing it. Of course the ones making money aren''t. But really, what do they know, they just don''t have the grand scheme.

I see a few problems with the way code-share.
1. We compete with ourselves and the lowest price is paid. As has been said on a different subject-you can buy a complete trip on United for a cheaper price and and never see United, just good ole US Airways. Now thats brilliant, take in less money and give some of that to somebody else.

2. And don''t even mention baggage. Code-share baggage is a nightmare. Bags are tagged to the wrong airline (the code share airline) and sometimes spend days trying to find their way home.

3. Connection time, ya right. It hasn''t been enough since the DC-3 days.

4. If US flight are operating full in many markets, then how come we continue to allow cheap fares to be sold? You would think that if a flight operates full, then inventory should not have sold so many cheap fares and only made higher ones available. I thought that was the whole purpose of the inventory system.

 

[tadjr]

Had a real fun code share yesterday. The lady came up with her "United" flight information and said she didnt know where she was to go, but it said operated by USAirways so she came to us first. Right. It was a US flight to DCA. Checked her in and the boarding passes came out blank (no eticket). Bag tags came out correctly to YYZ. Pulled up vcr and found ticket ok, but as usual, for some reason did not come thru as eticket. Printed both coupons and checked in pax again to get conx boarding pass that did not print the first time. Still didnt come out. Looked at ticket and bag tags and she''s connecting to AC codeshare. So, the pax has purchased a UA flight from TPA-DCA-YYZ and is never going to step on a UA plane today!

 

[thepoohbear]

tadjr
I found that 60% of the UA etkts don''t get into our system.
If it happens again, pull up vcr and do the following:
vcr#ctrl#c1/2 enter that and et record. Now you should get it as an etkt
#= cross loraine
It seems that UA''s system doesn''t want to release the etkts to our system.

 

[Old PSA]

And sometimes that doesn''t complete the process. You have to check the VI and then associate the VCR with the PNR. Its a wonderful thing SABRE is.

 

[N230UA]

You're mistaken in your assumption of code-share revenue.

The carrier that flies the segment on the ticket, no matter which carrier they purchased it from, gets the revenue.

All codesharing is, is interlining with a single air carrier code.

Revenue sharing is not allowed without anti-trust immunity, at which point the code share becomes a "joint venture".

 

[JI Guy]

OK, enough with this codeshare BS! I recently TRIED to check in for a PDX>DEN>PHL flight on USAir (the PDX>DEN leg was a 6000+ flight number) and Im looking ALL over the airport on July 3rd for the US Air checkin - but alas no signs and FINALLY come to understand it is a UNITED flight 402 taking me to Denver...WHAT IS THE POINT OF CODESHARES? Credit me with the mileage as I request on the carrier program of my choice and then give me who is flying the plane as the flight number and carrier. The ticket issuing carrier can make the sale thru its computer system and Im sure the credit can be arranged as warranted through back office accounting in this day and age, but dont f*ck up my trip with this nonsense! If what N230UA is saying is true - STOP IT NOW CAUSE ITS ALL WORTHLESS!!! Im supposed to FEEL better by having all US Air numbers? ITS ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS!!

 

[ITRADE]

You''ve just demonstrated that its not worthless.

UA got money for the PDX-DEN segment; US got money for the DEN-PHL segment.

Had there been no-codeshare, US would have gotten nothing. Or, in the alternate, neither US nor UA would have gotten any money as you could easily have taken Delta or American.

Again, you want an example of code-sharing/alliance sharing that works? Let me put it to you in the form of two different trips.

I came off a trip to PVG with two other co-workers - all the legs were on United aircraft. Had there not been an alliance and had two of us not been US FFs, we would have gone with the partner''s #1 option and would have taken NW instead. So, instead of no revenue, I got my US miles and US''s partner United got $18,900 in ticket revenue.

Not happy with that one? Try this.

We had three other co-workers go to NTE (thats Nantes for you IATA-deficients). One wanted to go on United. The others could care less. But since I had a deal for US Airways, and because US Airways gives miles to United for US flights, I secured three business class seats from DCA to CDG for the three guys. That meant about $13,000 in revenue for US Airways.

So, ya wanna show me that it doesn''t work??????

 

[JI Guy]

I think you didnt understand the basis of my rant. Im NOT arguing that there isnt money to be made or miles to be earned - in fact, I directly address those aspects. MY beef is WHY cant these items be done without changing actual codes on computers...As I stated, put the miles in which account I request and let the computers handle who gets paid what behind the scenes AND THERE IS NO REASON TO LABEL UNITED FLIGHTS AS US AIR NUMBERS.....My comment about "worthless" was, surprise, from a customer - not industry - viewpoint.

 

[ITRADE]

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On 7/8/2003 1:00:10 PM JI Guy wrote:

As I stated, put the miles in which account I request and let the computers handle who gets paid what behind the scenes AND THERE IS NO REASON TO LABEL UNITED FLIGHTS AS US AIR NUMBERS.

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Sure there is. You, with your partner carrier, are offering a through service that garner you the benefits as if you were flying wholly on one carrier.

The same happens every single day - with US Airways Express. They aren''t US Airways flights, but are numbered as such.

 

[ITRADE]

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On 7/8/2003 4:09:40 PM JI Guy wrote:

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Sure there is.  You, with your partner carrier, are offering a through service that garner you the benefits as if you were flying wholly on one carrier.

The same happens every single day - with US Airways Express.  They aren''t US Airways flights, but are numbered as such.

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Ahh, no theres not! What am I getting different if I had a UA/US ticket rather than a US ticket?? The operative word here "as if"....If I did a UA/US I would still get the connect if they were scheduling in tandem, get my miles on whichever program I requested, BUT I still have to travel to a different terminal, find out that I have to check in at United rather than US Air...AGAIN, what am I getting with the actual FLIGHTLISTING as one carrier rather than two...Maybe "codeshare" is too vague a term to get to the heart of my argument here....And I also disagree with the US Air Express farce! It is different airlines masquerading as US Air! FARCE! Its truly a dishonest representation to the traveling public. Their stats are NOT included in US Air''s stats so how would I know the safety basis of this carrier??

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You don''t, but DOT/FAA don''t see it that way. As long as they permit code-shaing, and as long as all of the majors do it (as well as LCCs including Frontier and AirTran), you''re simply going to have to accept it.

 

[JI Guy]

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Sure there is.  You, with your partner carrier, are offering a through service that garner you the benefits as if you were flying wholly on one carrier.

The same happens every single day - with US Airways Express.  They aren''t US Airways flights, but are numbered as such.

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Ahh, no theres not! What am I getting different if I had a UA/US ticket rather than a US ticket?? The operative word here "as if"....If I did a UA/US I would still get the connect if they were scheduling in tandem, get my miles on whichever program I requested, BUT I still have to travel to a different terminal, find out that I have to check in at United rather than US Air...AGAIN, what am I getting with the actual FLIGHTLISTING as one carrier rather than two...Maybe "codeshare" is too vague a term to get to the heart of my argument here....And I also disagree with the US Air Express farce! It is different airlines masquerading as US Air! FARCE! Its truly a dishonest representation to the traveling public. Their stats are NOT included in US Air''s stats so how would I know the safety basis of this carrier??

 

[Old PSA]

JI GUY
I agree with you. Even though it may be allowed by the FEDS, I still see it as deceptive.

ITRADE

Actually, the ticketing carrier gets a fee paid from the carrier doing the flying. It ain''t much (last I saw it was $2.50 a segment) but it all adds up.

And, in the case of affiliated carriers of US, code share is not involved since the flight is being operated as US only regardless of what airlines does the actual flighing. Code share would only be involved if the flight was double coded.

 

[Light Years]

JI Guy-
Please let your opinion of our "farmed-out" Express known to US Airways. Aside from the point you brought up, service also suffers because US has no control over personnel working for these carriers. These employees (not all of them) also have little concern about the future of US Airways or our customers repeat business, and very little knowledge of, or respect for our brand. There are thousands of US Airways employees on the street who would be happy to be back, regardless of pay or aircraft. Not to mention the fact that we own three perfectly capable commuter airlines- we have the 10 or so other affiliate airlines for the sole purpose of being too cheap to use our own employees and equiptment. Using "affiliate" carriers is beneficial to management because they have little responsibility, can make them underbid each other, and can shrink US into a much smaller, more easily sellable core. We appreciate your concern- let it be known!

 

[N628AU]

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On 7/8/2003 4:09:40 PM JI Guy wrote:

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Ahh, no theres not! What am I getting different if I had a UA/US ticket rather than a US ticket?? The operative word here "as if"....If I did a UA/US I would still get the connect if they were scheduling in tandem, get my miles on whichever program I requested, BUT I still have to travel to a different terminal, find out that I have to check in at United rather than US Air...AGAIN, what am I getting with the actual FLIGHTLISTING as one carrier rather than two...Maybe "codeshare" is too vague a term to get to the heart of my argument here....And I also disagree with the US Air Express farce! It is different airlines masquerading as US Air! FARCE! Its truly a dishonest representation to the traveling public. Their stats are NOT included in US Air''s stats so how would I know the safety basis of this carrier??

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JIGuy...

Check the line under your flight number. It states "Operated by XYZ Airlines" as required by the FAA. If you really wanted to find stuff out about the specific carrier, just check the line and then check with the Feds.

 

[ITRADE]

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On 7/9/2003 1:05:58 PM JI Guy wrote:

Thanks 628, but Im still trying to figure what does the traveling public get out of this flightnumber scam??? Why is it incumbent on me to decipher who flies what where and how?? A fricking farce!! IF I thought it would do any good, I would call my US Senator and maybe I will. If Frank Lautenberg stopped smoking on planes maybe he can cease this scam!

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For you, an extra 700 or so miles on your favorite airline.

If you were to ask the folks over on flyertalk.com if they felt the UA/US codeshare thing was beneficial, 99/100 would say yes.