Company Match of Prefunding Refund

[Realityck]

Guess what, you are no longer a participant, not since you got your contributions back. Have you ever read the trust agreement?
 
Under the trust agreement, any participant could opt out at any time and receive his contributions plus interest, but the company kept the match. So right now the match lies with the language that's dependent on whatever the definition of "successful" is.  
 
Who represents active employees on the 1114 Committee?
 
We left our funds in the hands of people who would benefit by keeping our money, that goes for both AA and the retirees. AA gets to look like a good guy for keeping the benefits going (till our money runs out)  and not give the retirees any equity, and the retirees get coverage for longer than they would have.
 
Sure its all speculation, and I hope I'm wrong and it doesn't go down this way, but I see it as a possibility and its why I was against even addressing it in the contract, at any rate we should not have agreed to introduce such vague language. It should have been left simple, the plan will be terminated and active employees will receive both contributions and matching funds.




What I don’t understand Bob is you were on the negotiating committee and we weren’t. If you had any concerns about the company attempting to avoid its responsibility to return their matching funds following the conclusion of the 1114 hearings, why didn’t you raise the question across the table and demand an answer in writing? (OR) since you’re a top officer in your Local now, ask Management now instead of sitting on the sidelines, blaming others, and guessing as to the outcome?

I personally believe American terminated the Retiree Medical Plan for active employees and it wasn’t an action supported by the Union. As such, the active employees are entitled to the company match once the 1114 process is concluded.

 

[AANOTOK]

Realityck,
 
A little tune changing there sir. I agree with you that Bob and the reps. should be fighting, asking questions and demanding answers (I pay dues for that) instead of offering  their opinion, using the blame game and throwing in the towel. But you sir, a few months ago (year or so actually) stated in no certain terms that the match would be given back. As a matter of fact, you spoke as though we were clueless and it clearly stated such in the contract language you posted on several occasions.
 
Now, it is nothing more than your personal belief (opinion) that the active employees are "entitled" to the company match....A little different than your "YOU WILL" be getting it back upon the conclusion of the 1114.

 

[Realityck]

Realityck,
 
A little tune changing there sir. I agree with you that Bob and the reps. should be fighting, asking questions and demanding answers (I pay dues for that) instead of offering  their opinion, using the blame game and throwing in the towel. But you sir, a few months ago (year or so actually) stated in no certain terms that the match would be given back. As a matter of fact, you spoke as though we were clueless and it clearly stated such in the contract language you posted on several occasions.
 
Now, it is nothing more than your personal belief (opinion) that the active employees are "entitled" to the company match....A little different than your "YOU WILL" be getting it back upon the conclusion of the 1114.




I don't know what Bob and the other negotiators agreed to, but there's no question an individual participant voluntarily withdrawing from the Plan is
not entitled to the company match. However, that is not the same as American unilaterally and forcibly demanding termination of the plan for all
actively employed Plan participants - with a large number of non-participants voting on it. Remember, this was a company engineered Plan termination
and not a participant request. When the company terminates the Plan as it did in this case, the individual participants should be entitled to the
company match. Also, I'm surprised that Bob didn't ask the company before this what the successful conclusion of the 1114 hearings means?

 

[Rogallo]

 

Realityck,
 
A little tune changing there sir. I agree with you that Bob and the reps. should be fighting, asking questions and demanding answers (I pay dues for that) instead of offering  their opinion, using the blame game and throwing in the towel. But you sir, a few months ago (year or so actually) stated in no certain terms that the match would be given back. As a matter of fact, you spoke as though we were clueless and it clearly stated such in the contract language you posted on several occasions.
 
Now, it is nothing more than your personal belief (opinion) that the active employees are "entitled" to the company match....A little different than your "YOU WILL" be getting it back upon the conclusion of the 1114.




I don't know what Bob and the other negotiators agreed to, but there's no question an individual participant voluntarily withdrawing from the Plan is
not entitled to the company match. However, that is not the same as American unilaterally and forcibly demanding termination of the plan for all
actively employed Plan participants - with a large number of non-participants voting on it. Remember, this was a company engineered Plan termination
and not a participant request. When the company terminates the Plan as it did in this case, the individual participants should be entitled to the
company match. Also, I'm surprised that Bob didn't ask the company before this what the successful conclusion of the 1114 hearings means?

 

Dude, learn how to quote a post!

 

[AANOTOK]

Funny you bring this up. I asked a rep today about the prefunding so we could get this all wrapped up, his comment was quote "this could take forever, if ever". I guess meaning, you may get nothing.

Again, brought this issue up to my TWU rep yesterday and his quote was "definitely prepare for the worst, but still pray for the best, maybe we will be pleasantly surprised"....I feel better now! <_<

 

[1AA]

Again, brought this issue up to my TWU rep yesterday and his quote was "definitely prepare for the worst, but still pray for the best, maybe we will be pleasantly surprised"....I feel better now! <_<

You know we really need to get rid of this useless union.

 

[Rogallo]

You know we really need to get rid of this useless union.

You guys in TUL just now figuring that out!
 
Git er done!

 

[Realityck]

You AMFA dreamers really need to get another hobby rather than just answering each other’s rhetoric. Try staying on the subject instead of pumping sunshine up each other’s ----.
 
AANOTOK: Now, it is nothing more than your personal belief (opinion) that the active employees are "entitled" to the company match....A little different than your "YOU WILL" be getting it back upon the conclusion of the 1114.
 
                     Dictionary:  “entitled” give (someone) a legal right or
                                         a just claim to receive or do something
 
 
I have stated my belief that American terminated the Retiree Medical Plan for active employees and it wasn’t an action supported by the individual participants. As such, the active employees are entitled to the company match once the 1114 process is concluded.  If you disagree with this be my guest, but at some point we’ll all find out who’s right and who’s wrong.
 
BTW Since Bob was a member of the negotiating committee and you and I weren’t, I don’t understand his confusion as to what the language really means. Maybe he was too busy doing his “VOTE NO” videos? At the very least, if he was confused, he should have asked the company across the table, or, he can ask them now since he’s an elected Local Officer.

 

[AANOTOK]

 
 
AANOTOK: Now, it is nothing more than your personal belief (opinion) that the active employees are "entitled" to the company match....A little different than your "YOU WILL" be getting it back upon the conclusion of the 1114.
 
                     Dictionary:  “entitled” give (someone) a legal right or
                                         a just claim to receive or do something

Yes, your point??

 

[iluvaa]

You AMFA dreamers really need to get another hobby rather than just answering each other’s rhetoric. Try staying on the subject instead of pumping sunshine up each other’s ----.
 
AANOTOK: Now, it is nothing more than your personal belief (opinion) that the active employees are "entitled" to the company match....A little different than your "YOU WILL" be getting it back upon the conclusion of the 1114.
 
                     Dictionary:  “entitled” give (someone) a legal right or
                                         a just claim to receive or do something
 
 
I have stated my belief that American terminated the Retiree Medical Plan for active employees and it wasn’t an action supported by the individual participants. As such, the active employees are entitled to the company match once the 1114 process is concluded.  If you disagree with this be my guest, but at some point we’ll all find out who’s right and who’s wrong.
 
BTW Since Bob was a member of the negotiating committee and you and I weren’t, I don’t understand his confusion as to what the language really means. Maybe he was too busy doing his “VOTE NO” videos? At the very least, if he was confused, he should have asked the company across the table, or, he can ask them now since he’s an elected Local Officer.

Did you ever think it was vague language like this that he wanted to vote no and not bring it to a vote. So please type your bullshit somewhere else

 

[Realityck]

iluvaa
 
Did you ever think it was vague language like this that he wanted to vote no and not bring it to a vote. So please type your bullshit somewhere else 
 
 
I'm sure you know he was an elected TWU representative who's responsibility it was to represent us in negotiations by challenging the company across the table if necessary, and demanding they explain in writing what they meant if he didn't understand it, rather than making VOTE NO Videos and now wondering what they were talking about. 
 
Why don't YOU take your bullshit somewhere else

 

[iluvaa]

Why don't you hold our elected leaders in TUL that were at the table and encouraged you to vote yes to the same standards

 

[Vortilon]

iluvaa
 
Did you ever think it was vague language like this that he wanted to vote no and not bring it to a vote. So please type your bullshit somewhere else 
 
 
I'm sure you know he was an elected TWU representative who's responsibility it was to represent us in negotiations by challenging the company across the table if necessary, and demanding they explain in writing what they meant if he didn't understand it, rather than making VOTE NO Videos and now wondering what they were talking about. 
 
Why don't YOU take your bullshit somewhere else

 
 
KInda hard to do that, when Don Videtich, and Jim Little are going against the memberships wishes.  This contract is a reflection of the international caving in to the company demands, and some misinformed voters in Tulsa

 

[NYer]

Thanks Bob...very encouraging when a Rep who should be fighting for me to make sure the right/contractual thing is done tells me "we will never see those our funds".

 
If Bob would have taken that time to actually read the Disclosure Statement from the Plan of Reorganization he would have been where the Creditors are not eager to eliminate the Retiree Medical for current retiree's in order to not open the door for them to make a claim against the Equity. It is more to the liking of the Creditors to have the Equity Distributed before the Retiree Medical is eliminated which would allow the money for the Match payouts to be released from the Trust which currently holds those funds.
 
It is just much easier to create another conspiracy theory.

 

[Vortilon]

 
If Bob would have taken that time to actually read the Disclosure Statement from the Plan of Reorganization he would have been where the Creditors are not eager to eliminate the Retiree Medical for current retiree's in order to not open the door for them to make a claim against the Equity. It is more to the liking of the Creditors to have the Equity Distributed before the Retiree Medical is eliminated which would allow the money for the Match payouts to be released from the Trust which currently holds those funds.
 
It is just much easier to create another conspiracy theory.

 
Conspiracy theory out of the TWU?  Seems to me, there is good reason to entertain just about any possibility that screws the membership - the TWU could have cooked up.