Company Provides Alpa With New Proposal

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It’s my understanding the out of seniority furlough for pilots would be instantaneous and by fleet type, which would likely eliminate most of the non-A320 pilots. The plan would be implemented similar in scope to the TPA hangar closure and we would a lock out, where people like Mwereplanes, Walmartgreeter, BoeingBoy, and two of the RC4 would be furloughed out of seniority, without severance pay, and no MDA option.


Guess what? The ALPA advisors have been dead-on-accurate in their predictions and the RC4 and their backers have been 100% wrong. How could that be?

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot
[post="182632"][/post]​
[/quote]
Ok, back from a 4 day, and this little sad tidbit to read. A320, I am not surprised you are finding such glee in pointing out who and who would not get the ax...just like you were so fond of during the UAL fiascos. Could it happen...you bet...but there is more to it than that. If alpa signs off on such a plan without a vote, its the end of ALPA as we know it..you can bet the stuff would be flowing downhill to the rest of the dinosaur carriers. If the company is able to "impose" such a deal, then it means the laws created by Congress after Lorenzo are meaningless. We are going to be the first TRUE test of these laws. Why do you think the company is throwing out so many bad ideas? They hope one will stick. So far the logical and unfearful pilots of U realize what is going on here...an attempt to break the back of organized pilots. I am so glad we have you here to take such pleasure in the thought of out of order firings. The rest of us are wiling to give untill it hurts, but without destroying the profession. It is not just pay issues, and you know it. You can sleep tight tonight, the pilots represented by the strong leaders of PIT and PHL will protect you....and if they are not able to....You are set, PROTECTED by being on the 320, PROTECTED by your lack of sick calls, and PROTECTED because, well, management really LIKES you. Greeter.
 
mwereplanes said:
You don't need to fix an out of seniority furlough. No need to.

There wouldn't be a company left if they attempt this.

mr
[post="182619"][/post]​
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I believe ALPA needs to argue the case in front of a BK judge. These proposals that the co. wants everyone to sign on to is much worse than BK judge would impose imo. We need to prove bad negotiations and not negotiating in "good faith".

The cost target number moved. I know that TWU just came to a T/A.
 
I take no glee in any of this, but the world has changed and the RC4 and their constituents have brought this on them self. Every ALPA advisor said this could occur and MEC chairman Bill Pollock wrote about this very issue on September 19 in a letter to the pilot's.

If the creditor's force the 150 mainline fleet plan, which the creditor's believe would provide twice the profits, the only way to cost effectively reduce the fleet is to furlough by fleet type and out of seniority.

If people do not like this plan then voice your concern to ALPA's RC4.

At today's MEC meeting there was nearly a riot with over 90% of the pilot's in attendance who spoke voiced their displeasure with the RC4's action. In fact, another recall of the RC4 was brought to the floor and there was a standing ovation from the crowd.

US Airways employees are heading for what ALPA Negotiating Committee member, CPA, and fraud examiner Don Hollerbach called an “Armageddonâ€. Lead by ALPA’s RC4 union “hardliners†continue to back the pilot group and other employees into a corner where there may be no way out.

ALPA legal advisor Mike Abahm’s told the MEC that US Airways does not have a CEO in charge and the real people who are in charge are the creditor’s. For example, the interim agreement with the ATSB allows the company to use cash that is pledged as collateral from the guaranteed loans.

Specifically, for the week’s ending September 17 and 24 the company must have an unrestricted cash balance of $600 million, for the week ending October 1 $550 million, for the week ending October 8 $575 million, and for the week ending October 15 $585 million. To ensure its interests are protected the board has hired New York investment banker Lazard to audit US Airways and its finances.

According to ALPA MEC chairman Bill Pollock, “it’s clear that the ATSB is holding the reigns very tightly on this process to ensure that its cash is used only in the ways and to the extend to which it consents.

The requirements above seem to take into account the Chapter 11 passenger “booking shockâ€. Furthermore, the interim agreement requires the company to maintain and possibly build its cash position during the first two weeks of October. To accomplish this task the company has two choices: boost revenue and cut costs.

To raise short-term revenue the company took out a full page add in today’s edition of the USA Today announcing a 2-day worldwide fare sale only available at usairways.com. The rock bottom fares will help put leisure travelers in unoccupied seats to provide some additional revenue, but the real issue remains costs and US Airways’ above LCC employee pay and benefits.

The issue here is simple: US Airways and its unions had the opportunity to restructure the company out of court. But, due to labor resistance to participate in the new business plan the company’s proposals to labor get worse, and worse, and worse, which ALPA’s advisors predicted and the RC4 ignored.

Pollock further noted to the pilot’s “as you can see, this bankruptcy process is already hitting us hard. Some believed that it would be better to go into bankruptcy than face a negotiated agreement outside of bankruptcy, but we are experiencing the very real predicaments of a judicial restructuring. Without a pre-bankruptcy negotiated settlement with management, we have lost much of our negotiating leverage. Our notional (DC Plan) pension monies are in limbo. We may have lost protections and returns that may have been available to us if we had reached a pre-bankruptcy agreement with management,†he said.

“We can no longer bury our heads in the sand. We must arm ourselves with as much information as possible – no matter how distasteful it is – and wisely use the short amount of time we have left to work on getting what we can while we still have some leverage,†Pollock noted.

From this observer’s perch there may be just one chance left for ALPA and the other union’s to reach a consensual accords to let the “Transformation Plan†proceed. It’s clear from the company’s last proposal to the pilot’s that the people running the company may elect to cut out a large chunk of labor from the plan of reorganization and decide the 150-aircraft fleet plan is the best option. Could that be why the company has not included in their latest ALPA proposal out of seniority furloughs, no severance pay, and no J4J MDA opportunities? Furthermore, could the company use bankruptcy tools to rid them selves of people like Mwereplanes, Walmartgreeter, and the RC4?

As US Airways’ chairman David Bronner said, this company will be restructured with or without employees and it appears now the only decision left may be will their be senior or junior employees left working at the company when the airline emerges from Chapter 11.

When would now be a good time for every union to reach new labor accords?

Respecfully,

USA320Pilot
 
Sorry .. when an emergency happens.... i'd rather have a experienced pilot who has been there and done that....rather than some cheap new hire...

or in airline lingo...FNG... as in someone who doesn't know ...the difference from sh*t to shineola.....

Lieutenant Pete 'Maverick' Mitchell..Top Gun
 
USA320Pilot said:
...If the creditor's force the 150 mainline fleet plan, which the creditor's believe would provide twice the profits, the only way to cost effectively reduce the fleet is to furlough by fleet type and out of seniority...

The issue here is simple: US Airways and its unions had the opportunity to restructure the company out of court. But, due to labor resistance to participate in the new business plan the company’s proposals to labor get worse, and worse, and worse, which ALPA’s advisors predicted and the RC4 ignored...

When would now be a good time for every union to reach new labor accords?
Click to expand...

Ok... REALITY CHECK: If US Airways and ALPA had come to a consentual and ratified agreement two weeks ago, US Airways would, with 90% likelihood, have still filed Chapter 11, and would still be looking to impose a 1113(e), including out-of-seniority furloughs. That's right, the company has not yet honored one ALPA contract or agreement, so I am not sure why you think they would have this time. Was the plan to go to an all Airbus fleet part of the rejected company offers? No. Were they thinking about the contingency of becoming an all Airbus airline then? Yes. You've said so yourself.

Therefore, regardless of what the "dasterdly RC4" have done, the outcome would have been the same. Please find a new scapegoat.
 
OldGuyinPA said:
Sorry .. when an emergency happens.... i'd rather have a experienced pilot who has been there and done that....rather than some cheap new hire...

or in airline lingo...FNG... as in someone who doesn't know ...the difference from sh*t to shineola.....

Lieutenant Pete 'Maverick' Mitchell..Top Gun
[post="182803"][/post]​
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There are no "cheap" new hires at US Airways. Even the most junior pilot working has enough time to be a captain at most other airlines. If you want to think about experience . . . think about that new hire at the regional with a couple hundred hours of multi-engine time and new to jets . . . . and making the equivilent of $10 an hour.
 
It's time for Pollock and the rest of the panic-driven MEC to quit wringing their hands and fighting the only pilots willing to stand for something (RC4) and open the strike center. This is the direction a strong union must take. If the bankruptcy judge sees the repercussions of invoking the right to out of seniority furloughs, he will be forced to reconsider his decision. If he thinks there are 3000 more USA320's out there (obviously there aren't or the RC4 would be history, as it is they are heroes) he will be emboldened to try just about anything.

Remember, this crisis was brought to you by Wolf, et. al. not the RC4. They are just dealing with it with honor.
 
Some of you more sane people help me understand how US pilots would seek support from the other carriers' pilots. In reality, US will probably kill itself and the jobs of their employees w/o giving ALPA a chance to speak meaningfully on the issue.

While I am pro-business, this smacks of such indecency that it requires some major action to ensure it never happens again. How?
 
Pollock should be RECALLED Immediately!!! He has done irreparable damage to the Pilots and their profession. If he had any UNION leadership abilities , HE WOULD RESIGN, and apoligize to the UNION, for the harm he has caused!!!
 
unit4clt said:
Pollock should be RECALLED Immediately!!! He has done irreparable damage to the Pilots and their profession. If he had any UNION leadership abilities , HE WOULD RESIGN, and apoligize to the UNION, for the harm he has caused!!!
[post="182829"][/post]​
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Yup, I must agree.

I like Bill, he's a decent man. But his actions in these last events and creation of division among the MEC in his MEC code-a-phone messages... call for his "ouster".

Pollock stated: "no matter how distasteful it is – and wisely use the short amount of time we have left to work on getting what we can while we still have some leverage,â€￾ .

IMO, the only leverage Bill is talking about is "total capitulation". And that is "self-crucifixion" for our pilots for the rest of their careers.
 
TechBoy said:
Never? Really?

I think that you need to think before you type. Furloughing out of seniority is the most common way of handling a RIF. I know people at MCI and Enron who were furloughed and seniority never came into the decision. This is the norm at most non-union or non-blue collar situations.

As for US, I doubt they would do it. Even they are smart enough to know it would mean the end of the airline.
[post="182755"][/post]​
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my grammar was bad (yes out of seniority from those other companies) but no they all got severance packages which is what i was trying to refer to and never out of seniority involving an airline

my bad on the grammar .. to clear it up.

severance packages (in our case furlough pay) in reference to other bankrupt companies was still paid even in bankrupcy
 
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