Company says it will not entertain parity

[ussnark]

For days you guys have slammed AWA320 for the statements he made to start this thread, claiming he was off the reservation, had no credible info, is "drinking Koolaid," etc. etc.

A typical response by the East who attack anyone who dares to make statements that do not support the East pilot's view of the world...
But in the end AWA320 was spot on and apparently his source was correct. As Junebug172 points out: "Scott Kirby, in CLT, made it known that the company would not entertain any sort of parity for the east." But not a word from the East choir acknowledging that they were wrong, and that the instant flaming of AWA320 was without merit.

I guess the facts will conveniently be forgotten again, the next time someone posts some information that contradicts the propaganda of the East. :down:

That is not to what Kirby was alluding, but, if it blows your skirt up, go ahead. Next time try to not cherrypick statements. It makes you look really dumb.

Glad to see you totally ignored you and your fellow US ALPO pilots are scabs from 1992.

I don't believe the IAM asked ALPA to "not cross" the picket lines or help them out. That I was directly told by the MEC Chairperson. I remember it was a pretty delicate time and none of the pilots I represented did cross (We also had none of the grounded aircraft).

I was even asked to take my cell off the airport as I was voluntarily relaying crew room info to the IAM and sorta resent your implications though I understand your feelings.

 

[A320 Driver]

It was in USA Today Money section that the CEO of Whole Foods was a regular undisclosed poster on a forum in yahoo and may have violated SEC rules.

Which one of you is Parker or Kirby? :unsure:

I just can't do it.

 

[OldGuyinPA]

aka ...

Batman and his sidekick..Robin

 

[700UW]

Bill Sherry, GVP of Transportation asked ALPA and AFA not to cross our picket lines.

AFA honored the lines only to be ordered back to work by a federal judge.

ALPO cut a secret deal and could not cross the picket lines fast enough. All pilots getting paid for grounded aircraft proves that fact.

If they did not cross how did the planes fly?

Why do you think the IAM had buttons made that we wore upon returning to work that said "thanks for nothing alpa"?

Only to have the pilots cry to Schofeild to make us take the buttons off.

 

[Junebug172]

"you scumbags" and "We do this together"....Hmmmmmm

Have a nice day.

Wow, you too!
🙄

 

[nostradamus]

Fair enough. Thanks for the honest post. I would hope that all the talk of crossing picket lines is just smoke, and that it wouldn't actually happen.

But even talking trash about it only helps to play into management's hand, because if they THINK it will happen, then they will preemptively move flying, and the damage to those exercising their right to strike will already have been done.

Hypocrite

 

[ussnark]

Bill Sherry, GVP of Transportation asked ALPA and AFA not to cross our picket lines.

Sorry. My notes say, nope. AFA was indeed told by a judge to go to work after, without being asked, they decided to honor the picket lines.

At the time, I don't remember seeing such badges. I am certain each domicile was handled in different ways.

I am not building a case for the pilots. As a group they have done some pretty scummy things, projecting their own insecurities and "challenges" on other groups among other things - like being really stupid about concessions - had the pilots simply said "NO" on LOA 93, US would likely have some executives who really work instead of the no-loads they have now.

Please recognize that there are some of us who respect other groups, recognizing that when someone is serious enough to quite their job (through a strike) that there is likely some good reason for it.

 

[700UW]

Your notes?

Dude you are not an IAM member I was during the strike and involved in its planning and execution, I even spoke to AFA reps and coordinated activities.

Both unions were asked, that is why the AFA honored.

Don't lie, GVP asked ALPA and AFA, you union cut a secret deal, the AFA did not.

They were not badges they were buttons that IAM Members in CLT wore upon the settling of the strike.

Don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[767jetz]

We have a catch 22 here.

As much as the East pilots want a raise, it pails in comparison to their living with the Nic award going forward. That is where we are and that is likely where we will stay. Two groups, each determined to have their way. Neither willing to compromise their positions.

Personally, I can think of NO solution that could pass muster with the majority of either pilot group.

I see your point, and I agree that the two sides are at polar opposites. I don't see a negotiated solution either.

Just to clarify, I am not a West pilot. As a UAL "outsider" I am looking at this (as is the rest of the ALPA carriers) from the perspective that what happens at US will be used as the play book/ rule book for any future consolidation. Not only WRT ALPA merger policy, but also the moral and financial implications to the company.

It is my opinion that the final resolution of this whole thing will rest in the letter of the law, who has the strongest case, and probably who has the best lawyers. I don't think posturing or a show of force or unity will make the difference, because these are tactics to get someone to cave in to one side, and as we both agree it won't happen on either side.

I do think that the company needs the "synergies" of a single operation, and will only stay neutral for so long before they start to apply pressure on one of the two groups. They will probably favor the group with the lowest overall cost, not necessarily the group with the lowest wages.

IMO it is the East that has the very steep, slippery, uphill ground to cover. I predict that the Nicolau award will stand, the list will be forwarded, and then the civil war will really begin. East will try to replace ALPA. Instead of negotiating a joint contract to raise the tide for everyone, the EAST will stonewall the process out of spite. USAirways service will falter even further as sick calls and working to the rule increases out EAST. If any further consolidation happens USAirways will be sidelined due to the whole mess. Beyond that, it's anyone's guess.

I hope I'm wrong and the two sides find a solution that gives the East a little more of what they want, (ie: attrition) without changing the award and the precedent of relative position over DOH. But I think we are getting right back where we started with the whole catch 22.

Hypocrite

Sorry. Try as you do, you can not connect me to things that happened long ago and before my time. If you want to call me a hypocrite, you'll have to show where I specifically suggested a double standard for me as opposed to others.

Good Luck! 😉

Funny thing is, you never have anything constructive to add. Not even a coherent rebuttal. Wonder why that is???? 🙄

 

[A320 Driver]

East will try to replace ALPA. Instead of negotiating a joint contract to raise the tide for everyone, the EAS's T will stonewall the process out of spite.

It's not spite. It's a legimate attempt to capture the attrition on the East side. Don't know how long you have been at United, but imagine putting in 20 years and still sitting in the right seat. Then have an award that places those with half your time in service senior to you effectively killing any chance you will ever have of upgrading to the left seat. Many of these East F/Os were Captains longer than their West counterparts were even with the airline. Now they are buried on the seniority list with no hope...NONE.

A person with no hope has very little to lose.

A320 Driver B)

 

[brown]

Sorry. My notes say, nope. AFA was indeed told by a judge to go to work after, without being asked, they decided to honor the picket lines.

At the time, I don't remember seeing such badges. I am certain each domicile was handled in different ways.

I am not building a case for the pilots. As a group they have done some pretty scummy things, projecting their own insecurities and "challenges" on other groups among other things - like being really stupid about concessions - had the pilots simply said "NO" on LOA 93, US would likely have some executives who really work instead of the no-loads they have now.

Please recognize that there are some of us who respect other groups, recognizing that when someone is serious enough to quite their job (through a strike) that there is likely some good reason for it.

Don't fuel his fire...DELETED BY MODERATOR...Do not post personal info.

 

[ussnark]

Don't fuel his fire..DELETED BY MODERATOR.

Thanks for the heads-up.

I think the reason the IAM did not formally ask ALPA was that they(IAM and ALPA) did not expect the pilots to help. I am sorry to say that the majority of pilots probably would not have been as "enthusiastic" as the flight attendents.

Heck, even back then, the ALPA MEC could not even field a "strike committee", the name deemed by the crybabies (CLT/DCA) as too, um, "provocative", so they called it the "family awarness committee".

sigh.

 

[767jetz]

imagine putting in 20 years and still sitting in the right seat.

A person with no hope has very little to lose.

A320 Driver B)

I hear you on that point. As I've always said, the situation of having 18 year furloughs is hell. It really does suck! I can empathize with that. But that was the situation before the merger. In fact it was going to get worse if the merger didn't occur.

Now I know the death of the DOH thing was just salt in the wound. But I really believe that the DOH is the true issue to most of the East, not the attrition. I could be wrong but that's the impression given. I think they are looking at the next merger and jockeying for position. Doesn't half of the attrition come from the f/o seat, the furloughs, and the guys on long term leave?

Also, If it was just attrition, then wouldn't the East be satisfied with getting their attrition but accepting the rest of the award? (ie: relative seniority instead of DOH adjusted for LOS.) Just curious.

But as stated, I guess the reality is that both sides are cemented in their current position.

 

[Dog Wonder]

It was in USA Today Money section that the CEO of Whole Foods was a regular undisclosed poster on a forum in yahoo and may have violated SEC rules.

Which one of you is Parker or Kirby? :unsure:

I'm Kirby.

Had an operation that made me into a poodle.

 

[nostradamus]

Sorry. Try as you do, you can not connect me to things that happened long ago and before my time. If you want to call me a hypocrite, you'll have to show where I specifically suggested a double standard for me as opposed to others.

Good Luck! 😉

Funny thing is, you never have anything constructive to add. Not even a coherent rebuttal. Wonder why that is???? 🙄

You work with scabs and preach against it. Your morality is guided by what you want in your wallet.