Competitors or Collaborators

[Bob Owens]

Are the airlines really competitors?

Would Coke tell Pepsi their recipie?

Why would Continental host American Airlines to explain how they increased productivity in Maintenance?

Continental has been hosting members from AA management and the TWU from JFK over at EWR as part of the AA/TWU PLI scam.

Boeing also hosted such meetings.

Why would Boeing host such an event?

What advantage would Continental have in giving away something that gives it a competitive edge on a much larger AA?

Boeing ageeing to such meetings and information sharing makes sense, no harm to them if AA becomes more efficient but why would Continental share its strategy for competitiveness with AA?

That would be like Coke telling Pepsi their formula. Its something that competitors simply do not do.

The question is if the airlines are competitors then why are they sharing such information?

What advantage would the Teamster represented mechanics gain by hosting the TWU representatives?

If Continental and AA got together and schemed how to increase ticket prices that would be illegal-(didnt Crandal get in hot water for that?)

However lets say the airlines got together to work out a scheme to lower labor costs.

Would that be illegal?

Apparently not, Aircon.org.

Since 9-11 we have seen scores of BKs and near BKs.
Either way, most airline workers have seen huge concessions, and airline executives have seen retention bonuses, pay raises, stock option grants and a host of other creative ways of cashing in.

One thing we have not seen is the liquidation of any of the major players which, if the whole crisis was for real, we most certainly would have seen.

The fact is that since all these so called competitors saw similar concessions competiovely they are in the same place they started. That should have been enough to kill off who ever was the weakest.

Where the Bks and near bks of the last few years driven by financial distress or financial opportunity?

I would argue the latter.

We were duped people, and our unions are responsible, and they are still pushing the smoke and mirrors.

 

[eolesen]

Sharing information on processes that are common isn't unusual at all, and just about every company does it within reason.

Continental and American have done this for years on various projects. AA has even done them with the evil Jetblue and v.v.

 

[flyhigh]

...plus CO probably charged American for this "advice" so it was likely worthwhile to do this. By what you're saying Bob, AA shouldn't do third party work either. Nor should any competitor for that matter. Why fix a Delta plane when their cancelation is your gain? Sharing price and inventory management information is however a much different issue.

 

[Bob Owens]

...plus CO probably charged American for this "advice" so it was likely worthwhile to do this. By what you're saying Bob, AA shouldn't do third party work either. Nor should any competitor for that matter. Why fix a Delta plane when their cancelation is your gain? Sharing price and inventory management information is however a much different issue.

From what I was told they were paid nothing.

Third party work makes sense, Crandal dismissed the opportunity saying "Why should I help competitors make money". Doing third party work makes sense as long as you charge enough, charge enough and you can guarantee that you make money even if they steal some of your customers. Sharing the way you maximize productivity with your competitors however doesnt make any sense at all. How does Continental benifit from sharing this info from AA?

Sharing information on processes that are common isn't unusual at all, and just about every company does it within reason.

Continental and American have done this for years on various projects. AA has even done them with the evil Jetblue and v.v.

Sure its not unusual for collaborators but it is for competitors. Management basically told the workers that outfits like JetBlue were out to destroy AA and their livelyhoods and thats the reason why they had to take these huge paycuts. As it turns out they arent really in all much of a competition at all are they?

 

[eolesen]

Where airlines compete with each other is on product delivery and network, not cost.

"Collaborating" on methods and standards isn't going to change either of those.

 

[FWAAA]

This isn't like Coke sharing the recipe with Pepsi.

It's more like Coke and Pepsi discussing the most efficient way for their delivery drivers to run their routes and get the billions of pounds of liquid product on the shelf. Their hope is to learn from each other some tips on reducing fuel and labor expense. Which trucks to buy, which tires are best, how to best prevent employee back injuries, etc.

Of course competitors like to get together and talk. Happens in nearly all industries. When their talks involve pricing or market allocation, prison terms become a real possibility for the execs. But as long as the companies get competent antitrust advice (and the execs listen to their lawyers), competitors are free to discuss an awful lot of their business with each other.

But of course since it involves AA management, Mr Owens has decreed that it's either illegal or incredibly stupid. As usual, Mr Owens = Backseat Manager Extraordinaire.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

But of course since it involves AA management, Mr Owens has decreed that it's either illegal or incredibly stupid. As usual, Mr Owens = Backseat Manager Extraordinaire.

Well, you were making sense for a while, but you went too far.

Again.

Mr Owens is obviously not a back seat manager. That is readily apparent to most. He is a critic. There is a difference. And.............there is a lot to criticize.

 

[Bill]

And might I add (Bob) has no clue as to what was even discussed.



CONSPIRACY THEORY 101!!! taught by Mr. Bob Owens

 

[Bear96]

Bob displays the kind of mentality that scares many of today's workers (who live in the 21st century) away from the union movement, and he is one aspect of the problem that continues to make unions increasingly irrelevant in today's society and economy.

 

[Bob Owens]

And might I add (Bob) has no clue as to what was even discussed.
CONSPIRACY THEORY 101!!! taught by Mr. Bob Owens

Manning, such as how they they man Etops, overnight checks etc and the use of Goldhopfer tractors etc.That is unless the PLI Rep was lying.

Leave it up to Bill, Local 514s finest, to be on the side of management once again.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob displays the kind of mentality that scares many of today's workers (who live in the 21st century) away from the union movement, and he is one aspect of the problem that continues to make unions increasingly irrelevant in today's society and economy.

Todays workers face the same basic problems that workers have always faced. Some struggles are eternal. The vices of man will always be something we must struggle with, the Ten Commandments, written thousands of years ago, are just as difficult to obey today as they were then.

The idea that workers in the 21st century somehow no longer need unions is absurd. The problem is that there are few real unions around. So while I would agree that "unionism" in America is approaching the point irrelevancy its due to the fact that most of the union bosses of today think like you, and not like me.