contract negotiations

[SKY HIGH]

LINK: http://www.afausairways.org/Eline/nov11_07.htm

Vacation, Sick and OJI

The Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) and the company met in session in CLT on November 6-8. The results were less than satisfying-in fact they were dreadful.

I have said it before and I will say it again-we are not in concessionary bargaining. The industry and the airline continue to prosper. US Airways' year to date profit for the first nine month of 2007 is a whopping 506 million dollars. That compared to 292 million dollars for the equivalent nine month period in 2006 means that something is going right.

Is any of that money ending up on the bargaining table?

Last week's company proposals dealing with economic sections such as Vacation, Sick and On the Job Injury clearly indicate a resounding NO.


only stating opinions

 

[SKY HIGH]

The proposal represented absolutely NO gain for East Flight Attendants and a significant decrease to the West Flight Attendants vacation days-in some cases as much as a 14 day loss per year

.......this amazes me for both the east and west folks.

A loss on the west side? During record profits.

And on the East: Try taking a seven day vacation and try to come in with 95 hours within the same month. It's exhausting and nearly impossible.


only stating opinions

 

[2clippedwings]

The proposal represented absolutely NO gain for East Flight Attendants and a significant decrease to the West Flight Attendants vacation days-in some cases as much as a 14 day loss per year

.......this amazes me for both the east and west folks.

A loss on the west side? During record profits.

And on the East: Try taking a seven day vacation and try to come in with 95 hours within the same month. It's exhausting and nearly impossible.


only stating opinions

Your post caught my eye for a number of reasons.
#1) Speaking as a reserve, if the company believes that 73 hours is a livable wage and equals the average flight attendant line then why are monthly maxes usually set at 90 hours? That is too great of a disparity, especially for a reserve that may want to fly 90 hours and NOT on their days off.
#2) Again speaking as a reserve, my 4 days of vacation awarded for 2008 (hire date 2000 but in 2nd year of actual active service at mainline) is NOT above guarantee. If by chance I do not break guarantee in a month with vacation awarded, I don't get paid for my vacation days, so what is the use in taking them?
#3) Even in a real life job, after 1 full year of service, most employers provide a week of vacation for their employees.
#4) Of course coming in at 95 hours AND vaca is near impossible because you have to fly that much more to attain the wages that you made pre-concession. But as a reserve, I have to tell you that comment rubbed me the wrong way. It only rubbed my face in the fact that I do not make a livable wage nor earn a realistic vacation.

I hope everyone took the opportunity to respond to the contract survey.
Personally, I am unwilling to accept anything less than I am getting now.
Remember f/a's have 1 less f/a per plane pre-concession PLUS we are doing the work of a utility worker everytime we have to pick up trash and clean an airplane. West new hire f/a's make what I made 28 years ago flying for a major carrier. Inflation? Cost of living?
Only a young-un still living at home with mom and dad could afford to work as a new hire out west.

Accept nothing less. No more company profits on the backs of the employees. Management, fix the operation with creative thinking, listen to the employees offering cost saving advise (ideas that fly?) and NO bonuses until you can prove that they were earned without concessions from employees. Please let me be proud of my employer again.

 

[dexter]

Bottom line, Flores absolutely correct, we are not in BK and we are making money! Unacceptable!

 

[USstew23]

Well with gas hovering around $100/pbl it's only going to add more fuel to the fire, or less if you want to get technical. I'm just waiting for the company to start up with that excuse.

 

[nycbusdriver]

The company always tries the logic that, even though the times are good economically, we as a company must prepare for the bad times that will come and therefore negotiate a concessionary (for labor) contract.

And then, when the bad times do actually come, we (labor) have to concede even more because of the huge losses.

It makes perfect sense if you have an MBA.

 

[safety stud]

What everyone seems to forget, the east has a contract that isn't ammendable until 2011. In actuallity you probably won't see anything to vote on until 2014. You can BIATCH all you want. The company is under NO obligation to negotiate. The fact they are doing it is great.

Make no bones about the severity of the decisions you make. When the last contract through the last BK came out, you had a chance to let your voice be heard. It was silent. You accepted the company's propsal. Now after you gave up the kitchen sink along with the rest of the kitchen you want it back now that the company is making money. Sorry folks, in labor, it doesn't work that way. You get what you negotiate. PERIOD. You accepted a 7 year contract. Think about where we will be by 2014. Will the company be making the kind of money it has now? I doubt it. Mark my words, the only way the company will open the contract for anything is to ask for more concessions. Until you are just above the poverty line on every level the company doesn't want to deal with you. Sometimes in life you must stand up and just say NO.

Those of us with seniority, have said NO. We know what it's like. Tough decisions are just that... tough. Unification of AFA and all bases at LCC must stand up and make the tough decisions. But you see, most flight attendants on this post think only of themselves and how it effects them, not as a whole. Look at how you feel about the closing of PIT. Now look at how you feel about how the ripple effect will effect you. Now look at the reserve issue, Now look at .... whatever... There is no unification within the ranks of the union. We all speak with many voices, none of all in harmony. Until you are willing to stand up and say NO, and look at the long term effect of the NO, just keep opening your pocket book, because the company will come looking.... Trust me....

Just my opinion...

 

[2clippedwings]

What everyone seems to forget, the east has a contract that isn't ammendable until 2011. In actuallity you probably won't see anything to vote on until 2014. You can BIATCH all you want. The company is under NO obligation to negotiate. The fact they are doing it is great.

Make no bones about the severity of the decisions you make. When the last contract through the last BK came out, you had a chance to let your voice be heard. It was silent. You accepted the company's propsal. Now after you gave up the kitchen sink along with the rest of the kitchen you want it back now that the company is making money. Sorry folks, in labor, it doesn't work that way. You get what you negotiate. PERIOD. You accepted a 7 year contract. Think about where we will be by 2014. Will the company be making the kind of money it has now? I doubt it. Mark my words, the only way the company will open the contract for anything is to ask for more concessions. Until you are just above the poverty line on every level the company doesn't want to deal with you. Sometimes in life you must stand up and just say NO.

Those of us with seniority, have said NO. We know what it's like. Tough decisions are just that... tough. Unification of AFA and all bases at LCC must stand up and make the tough decisions. But you see, most flight attendants on this post think only of themselves and how it effects them, not as a whole. Look at how you feel about the closing of PIT. Now look at how you feel about how the ripple effect will effect you. Now look at the reserve issue, Now look at .... whatever... There is no unification within the ranks of the union. We all speak with many voices, none of all in harmony. Until you are willing to stand up and say NO, and look at the long term effect of the NO, just keep opening your pocket book, because the company will come looking.... Trust me....
Just my opinion...

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2clippedwings responds:

I am saying NO-loud and clear. NO.
Too bad I didn't get a voice during the last vote. Now I'm living with the consequences of more senior flight attendant's decisions or apathy.
Does the negiotiation for a joint f/a contract supercede the expiration date of our current contract?

 

[safety stud]

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*** :glare:

2clippedwings responds:

I am saying NO-loud and clear. NO.
Too bad I didn't get a voice during the last vote. Now I'm living with the consequences of more senior flight attendant's decisions or apathy.
Does the negiotiation for a joint f/a contract supercede the expiration date of our current contract?

As far as I know, the transition agreement which allowed the certificate to be merged as one was the only valid agreement for both sides. East has an agreement until 2011. West was in negotiations when the merger was announced. Both contracts can be run seperately. So to answer your question. NO. The company can run east/west seperate until a joint agreement is reached. But there is no timeline.

 

[Travelpro72]

With the situation going on with our pilots will this make flight attendant negotiations slow (like they could get slower) when it comes to sections that we have "me-too" clauses? Just curious....

 

[EMBFA]

Make no bones about the severity of the decisions you make. When the last contract through the last BK came out, you had a chance to let your voice be heard. It was silent. You accepted the company's propsal. Now after you gave up the kitchen sink along with the rest of the kitchen you want it back now that the company is making money. Sorry folks, in labor, it doesn't work that way. You get what you negotiate. PERIOD. You accepted a 7 year contract.

Actually, most of the flight attendants who post on here did not have the opportunity to vote. They were either furloughed or in the mysterious 'division' where you paid dues to mainline AFA but were not represented or allowed to vote (a ridiculous situation not borne of our votes either).

I can guarantee you that myself, 2clippedwings, USstew23, IMissTheAladdintrays, Zarah, Coffee Tea and Me and many of the other flight attendant regulars on here were not given a vote that particular time, even if they were on the property.

 

[sharonstoneseat]

Like the no reduction in vacation weeks stance.

Like the 4.5 hours for everyone....it should have never been anything but equal across the board

Like the flexibility issue, that benefits F/A and the company. If a new hire wants to split the vacation for a couple of functions that they wish to attend it saves all of that struggle trying to rearrange your schedule or get one of those non existant personal days or using sick time.

DON"T understand why the 20-25 year should get 1-4 days more time and no one else does. Life in the real world is that very senior people get as much vacation time as they want when working with 5 weeks. Most of them have vacation MONTHS with what the system allows them to do. Sorry, if anyone needs 1-4 days more it is the poor new hire who is doing a steady diet of 737 5 leg trips and no weekends off.

Let's take a look at taking care of our own. I propose that the F/A with 1 lousey week vacation should get their choice awarded first and then the system revets to the most senior. And yes. one-weekers would not be allowed to bid the critical time between Thanksgiving and New Year but they should get some priority with their paltry amount of time off. If they want to use their vacation to get at least one holiday off to be with family or friends so be it. It is too sad and too hard not to sympathize when these folks work through the holiday season and then are all forced on vacation the second week in January with the entire rest of the year streching in front of them. It is just cruel.

And I am not a new hire, I have 3 weeks vacation, but am not happy with seeing increased benefits for the group at the top. I can't say that I think they need more and I am not going to support any proposals that reward only those who have the most rewards already.

 

[LCC-STEW]

Question for the East F/A's.


How much vacation time and pay do you get if you have been with the company for 17 years?

I am concerned since I have been here 17 and get almost 5 weeks paid at 4.5. They want to take away our vacation and give the pay increases to the junior f/as. This is totally unacceptable! This is a pay cut for me.

 

[Zarah]

Question for the East F/A's.


How much vacation time and pay do you get if you have been with the company for 17 years?

I am concerned since I have been here 17 and get almost 5 weeks paid at 4.5. They want to take away our vacation and give the pay increases to the junior f/as. This is totally unacceptable! This is a pay cut for me.

It is 23 days and you can find the chart with the link below, and the pay is 4 hours if you take 7 or more days and 3:30 if you take less then 7 days (I did not read the entire section, so to get accurate information read section 7 of our contract).

http://www.afausairways.org/contract/contract04.pdf

Naturally that is what the company wants - cost neutral just as they have been saying all along. The union however has other ideas. You can read the recent e-line to see their stance on it.

 

[PHLfa88]

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2clippedwings responds:

I am saying NO-loud and clear. NO.
Too bad I didn't get a voice during the last vote. Now I'm living with the consequences of more senior flight attendant's decisions or apathy.
Does the negiotiation for a joint f/a contract supercede the expiration date of our current contract?

NO...NO...NO...NO!!!!! :down: