Cormorant Operating Costs

[widgeon]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...ol=968793972154

22 maint hours per flight hour !! , thought the private sector was supposed to be more efficient. Even at 12 hours per flight hour ( as forecast now by AW ) seems awful high .What are the corresponding figures for an offshore equipped S61 or Puma ?.

 

[sharkbait]

Interesting article.
However, trusting journalists about as much as I trust ticking clocks with batteries, wires and red sticks attached....
A little further research may have been called for.
Our good buddies the Brits are using the same airframe in their Armed Forces.
What is their experience as to person hours required per flying hours?
Just a comment but what brilliant group signed the maint. contract and why were there not some type of performance clause in the original purchase as concerns Maint. or would that be too obvious a thing to include? "Buy the bloody thing and we'll test fly it in the field."
Considering how long the beast took to develop and how much they spent it should have been just about bulletproof from the factory. ( looking at the ads before the deal was signed I was convinced it was the all singing all dancing Yellow and Red box. )
Having never been involved in such negotiations I can not be overly critical.
In any case they should have assumed there would be a learning curve and manned up accordingly instead of going with the minimum number of technicians.
Then again CAF bashing is a popular journalistic sport. They are after all a easy target and in that one sense defenseless.
Of course if we were to schedule that during the next big winter storm a group including the Minister of Defence, some journalists and other bureaucrats were dropped off in a raft with an EPIRB a hundred miles off of St. John's to await the arrival of a rescue helicopter I wonder which one they would want and what they would be ready to pay for it???
Our Search and Rescue Forces deserve our full support. You never can tell when you could want one desperately. Besides they are a great group of people.

 

[Blackmac]

The owner of IMP is famous for playing the game of bid low, win the contract, hold fast for awhile, then complain bitterly that the military did not provide enough information to provide the hourly maintenance costs.

This is not a new game, some outfits play it all the time.

DND should retender the contract on behalf of the Canadian taxpayer or IMP should pickup all the costs in relation to thier learner curve.

Maintenance requirements were readily available from other sources.


Cheers, Don

 

[widgeon]

lu has posted some comparative hours for US Helicopters here

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.ph...threadid=147877

Maybe 22 hours is not that far out , but as said above Rowe and co should have done better homework.

 

[sharkbait]

Interesting info on pprune - and no one calling anyone an idiot - fascinating.
I gotta wonder how they come up with the numbers for the CAF a/c.
We all remember the joke of asking the CPA what 2 and 2 add up to. Usually he drags you into a corner and lowers his voice saying" What do you want it to equal?"
I was on one base where the Lead engineer insisted that all 3 engineers show up to launch 2 a/c 30 minutes apart and stay at the hangar all day. Once the a/c came back from the scheduled tasks he wouldn't let anyone work on them as " the customer might need them." Result 3X9 hrs in order to pull 2 sets of plugs and do 2 Post flights. He would then arrive in the base managers office and announce that he was grounding an a/c to do maint. the next day irrespective of a planned major offshore crew change the next day.
As total flying for both a/c was about 100 hours per month multiply 27 hrs per day X 30 days we get 810 hours or 8.1 man hours per flying hour. He then asked for more engineers so he could have a night shift. LOL 😀
Our suggestion that 5 guys not working on the helicopters was no improvement over 3 guys not working on the helicopters was recieved with little grace.
The result was 3 very bored engineers 2 ratty a/c and the PO'd customer planning around 6-8 days of US a/c per month. The base manager developed a nasty twitch and started picking on cute puppies. :blink:
Fortunately this situation was quickly resolved - fortunately before our collection for a hit man achieved its target and an empty barrel, 4 bags of cement and some old sling gear could be found 🙄 ( who says pilots and engineers can't co-operate?) and a new Lead arrived. After he picked himself off the floor onto which he had collapsed in horror when he saw what was going on he immediatly had a rotation set of one guy launching the 2 a/c and everybody else showing up at 10AM. if both a.c were flying or at 8AM if the customer only required 1 a/c and there was work to do on the other. The customer understood that maint was required and did not call it a unserviceable day day unless the a/c was well and truely grounded.
Result - Happy customer, Happy engineers, Happy pilots, Happy helicopters and the base manager got his sense of humour back ( That may have been the Prozac kicking in however). 🙂
Aint't common sense wonderful.
My point being, I guess: Are they just counting hours spent in the hangar or hours spent actually working on the a/c. How many hours are the a/c flying per month? Are the techs working shifts or are there a bunch of guys standing around looking at an empty hangar?
Anybody have any information an that?