Corporate Security Raids LGA Locker Room

[Ken MacTiernan]

These big union babies will never grow up. Company might as well go bankrupt and bust the unions and lay thousands off. They'll have plenty of time to sleep then. If they want to take the company down then the company needs to downsize and lay the a**es off !

Ah, another "newbie" pops up. These management posters sure are comical.

What do unions have to do with this thread?

"Sleeping" has nothing to do with taking "the company down".

The arguement here is about the human body clock. It's that simple. Have you ever seen two police cars in a parking lot late at night parked alongside each other in opposite directions? (Parked so each driver can talk to the other driver.) Well, one is taking a nap while the other is listening to the radio. How about doctors? My daughter was born last 4th of July at 8:45 AM because the doctor went home to sleep before the delivery. Direct quote from our nurse. My wife was in labor and ready to deliver.

Point is some people either do not like the fact that certain night shift work can be performed and then "40 winks" can be had. Why are you so upset? This thread isn't titled, "CRAP! I only got 10 minutes of rest last night!", now is it?

Why are aircraft inspected and repaired on night shift? because the public doesn't want to fly at 1:00 AM, that's why. Work is being accomplished properly and in a timely manner. When I first started working on aircraft my nights were long because I was new and troubleshooting a discrepancy was time and labor intensive. After 22 years of working on commercial aircraft, I am much more capable of troubleshooting a problem and getting it fixed the first time much quicker. Am I to be punished as some here feel I deserve? When I am done I will help others still engaged in their assignments if they want it. Years ago we would "train" the new hires and explain how we do our jobs, hence handing down our knowledge to the next generation. But lay offs have seen to the fact that there is no one to hand off our knowledge to at this time.

Point is, as it was previously pointed out, is that skilled AMTs are a great insurance policy. Just like Firemen. We do our jobs to the best of our ability. The above "newbie" sounds as if he is a troll and never worked night shift, let alone repair aircraft.

 

[eolesen]

Never in my time at AA (20 years) have I seen or heard of a manager (and higher) being fired - that is, actually hitting the street.

I've seen them shuffled, seen them placed into new and unnecessary new positions created for the occasion, given to a different director, and in only one case, a manager (may have been a director) was demoted (word was that he requested the demotion), but never actually a termination. With respect to layoffs, manager and above at AA is akin to a position with the post office - no way will these people go anywhere. Another position will be created, as always, to protect them.

When conditions warrant, people get fired, Goose....

When I have more time to put together a list, I will. Off the top of my head, I've lost count of how many MD's Ramp Service were fired at MIA over the past 15 years. Ken Pyatt was the first one to actually survive in at least 10 years... But the three or four before him were all fired. We talked about the PDX GM at PDX being fired about five years ago. His replacement resiged before being fired. Gwonda at BWI was fired. There were three or four people fired at LAX M&E if I recall within the past two years. How about Duke from ORD Ramp?

Sure, there are people who get downgraded or moved. Fact is that good people do wind up in the wrong job, and simply firing them isn't appropriate if they can be placed in a position where they'll be more successful. That's what a good manager does in a non-union environment. And yes, sometimes that gets abused.

And sometimes the person who gets downgraded or moved is still identified as a screw-up. Rowan was moved out of JFK ramp and over to YYZ as GM (technically a downgdate), where he eventually washed out altogether. It happens.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

There is a reason Ken Pyatt survived. Don't you find it odd that he was kicked from Pax Service down to ramp, almost overnight, where he spent 3 years, then came back to his old job in Pax Service again, almost to the day?

It's a very interesting story . . . for such a dull weasel of a man that is.

I often wondered if the ramp folks hated him as much as the pax service folks.

 

[swdriver]

I do not care who you are, if you sleeep on the job, you should be fired......

Ah, another "newbie" pops up. These management posters sure are comical.

What do unions have to do with this thread?

"Sleeping" has nothing to do with taking "the company down".

The arguement here is about the human body clock. It's that simple. Have you ever seen two police cars in a parking lot late at night parked alongside each other in opposite directions? (Parked so each driver can talk to the other driver.) Well, one is taking a nap while the other is listening to the radio. How about doctors? My daughter was born last 4th of July at 8:45 AM because the doctor went home to sleep before the delivery. Direct quote from our nurse. My wife was in labor and ready to deliver.

Point is some people either do not like the fact that certain night shift work can be performed and then "40 winks" can be had. Why are you so upset? This thread isn't titled, "CRAP! I only got 10 minutes of rest last night!", now is it?

Why are aircraft inspected and repaired on night shift? because the public doesn't want to fly at 1:00 AM, that's why. Work is being accomplished properly and in a timely manner. When I first started working on aircraft my nights were long because I was new and troubleshooting a discrepancy was time and labor intensive. After 22 years of working on commercial aircraft, I am much more capable of troubleshooting a problem and getting it fixed the first time much quicker. Am I to be punished as some here feel I deserve? When I am done I will help others still engaged in their assignments if they want it. Years ago we would "train" the new hires and explain how we do our jobs, hence handing down our knowledge to the next generation. But lay offs have seen to the fact that there is no one to hand off our knowledge to at this time.

Point is, as it was previously pointed out, is that skilled AMTs are a great insurance policy. Just like Firemen. We do our jobs to the best of our ability. The above "newbie" sounds as if he is a troll and never worked night shift, let alone repair aircraft.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

I do not care who you are, if you sleeep on the job, you should be fired......

Well, why don't you save Southwest the trouble of firing you and just resign.

 

[TWU Victim]

I do not care who you are, if you sleeep on the job, you should be fired......

Damn, you just fired every Fireman in the United States.
Better hope that your house never catches on fire!

 

[TWU informer]

Damn, you just fired every Fireman in the United States.
Better hope that your house never catches on fire!

Oh come one now, Firemen do not sleep on the job. They stay awake for 48 hours at a time.

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Damn, you just fired every Fireman in the United States.
Better hope that your house never catches on fire!

Do you work 24-hour shifts like firefighters?

Or how about resident doctors at teaching hospitals who work 24-48 hour shifts?

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

Do you work 24-hour shifts like firefighters?

Or how about resident doctors at teaching hospitals who work 24-48 hour shifts?

So they work a 24 hour shift. They should still be fired if they close their eyes according to eolesen,wing and swloser. Lord have mercy if they fired all our military people for sleeping between the roadside bombs and insurgent attacks in Irag and afghanistan. As far as resident doctors are concerned, maybe they ought to unionize to prevent that type of abuse.
AMT's have and will always put in more than 40 hrs in a week. Sometimes putting in 12-16 hour days. AMT's get called all the time to go on field trip assignments. A field trip can last as long as 8 hours or it might be as long as two weeks. Depends on the damage caused by the likes of swdriver.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

Semantics. You're attempting to engage others in a pissing match over semantics.

In certain jobs, people are expected to sleep, especially when their shift is 24/7 like most fireman.

So yes, in certain jobs it is expected, but not for airline mechanics/maintenance. If it were expected, it would be in the job description rather than a company-wide policy that categorizes sleeping on the clock as a terminable offense.

I for one won't get into a pissing match with you. As far as I'm concerned, they can close the thread since there is no acceptable excuse for sleeping on the clock, that point has been made, and there is nothing else to say.

So you can give up on the baiting at this point.

 

[jimntx]

The underlying theme of this thread is...

All union members are like the Virgin Mary...without sin or error.

All management people are like the excommunicated...cast into outer darkness without hope of redemption.

 

[eolesen]

[dupe]

 

[eolesen]

[dupe]

 

[eolesen]

Great examples, but the unshakeable fact remains that AA's rules of conduct prohibit loafing, sleeping, or other intentional restriction of output. These guys broke a written rule that intentionally doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation.

You can bring up whatever other examples you want to, folks, but if they don't work for AA, whether they stay awake, sleep, or bang a $5 whore on top of the ladder truck while they're on the clock is between them and their employer.

 

[The Goose]

Great examples, but the unshakeable fact remains that AA's rules of conduct prohibit loafing, sleeping, or other intentional restriction of output. These guys broke a written rule that intentionally doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation.

You can bring up whatever other examples you want to, folks, but if they don't work for AA, whether they stay awake, sleep, or bang a $5 whore on top of the ladder truck while they're on the clock is between them and their employer.

I remember a few years ago there was a raid or two that found a few "nests" here in Tulsa. I don't remember exactly what happened at that time, but ...

I have to agree with you on this one. Having worked mids a time or three myself, I know the temptation to nap - I also know how easy it is to be sitting at lunch and nod off. That will happen on any shift and not intentionally.

We had a clown in the shop some time ago that would come in, almost daily, from a night of whoring around and drinking, and take up residence in a crapper stall for the majority of the day with the supervisor's knowledge. 6 months later, and nothing was done until he refused a drug test. It still took another 3 months to get rid of the idiot (we believed he was the supervisor's bastard son).

It's natural that people will try to do everything they can get away with. The immediate supervision lets them get away with whatever they're doing and when there's a crackdown we hear, by way of complaints, the effects of having a double standard.

American's supervision ( not all but as a general rule) aren'y worthy of shoveling garbage, let alone managing people. That being said, one has to wonder what manner of trash allowed them in the positions they hold and kept them there.

Once upon a time, the was a fellow who made the comment that he'd gotten to where he was by hiring people smarter than himself. That fellow was Andrew Carnegie. As time went on and the self-centered, useless yuppie contingent began to take over the offices, they thought that hiring a person smarter than they were was a good way to get fired, so the standards were relaxed.

After a hundred years of this going on, in effect creating a downward spiral with regard to the quality of people available in corporate Amerika, is it any wonder we've digressed to the present point of arguing as to whether or not it's cool to sleep on the job? Evidently, this issue was never dealt with in the correct manner since day one.

You don't sleep on the clock - period.