CRAF flying

On 12/30/2002 8:43:27 AM Busdrvr wrote:

Does the point system include the number of jets you've pledged to CRAF? Does an AMR, who's parked all the -10's and likely doesn't have trained crews, cancel scheduled service to send jets to the CRAF when someone else is ready (trained crews), willing and able? Does the government go straight to the CRAF or do they attempt to contract out extra lift first?


AMC will try to contract out lift first. The contract rates for flying are lower for charter than they are for CRAF missions.

The point system is pretty complex, but involves several variables including length of haul, number of trips previously accepted/refused, and yes, cost.

If Carrier X has to cancel scheduled service to provide aircraft and crew, the fact that Carrier Y has aircraft and crew available is totally irrelevant so long as Carrier X is willing to accept the assignment.


Aug 20, 2002
On 12/30/2002 12:15:58 AM Rhino wrote:

Spent a great weekend at the Intercontintal with a good-looking AA FA redhead, though. Then ran a VN refugee camp for three months, less fun. She lived in Port Jeff. Wondered how she's doing. 27+ years ago. Hope she's not furloughed.

If she spent the weekend with you, she's probably dealing with the long term effects of syphillus, Gonoreah, and herpes (you did say "she" right?)
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Aug 20, 2002
They didn't have Herpes back then. Nor AIDS. It was a great time to be single and/or gay.

Not that great a time to be in SF. (not SFO, BTW)


[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/30/2002 9:53:55 AM FA Mikey wrote: [BR][BR]What ever the goverment does, I am sure the airlines will make money on it. ----------------[BR][/BLOCKQUOTE][BR][BR]Hi Mikey,[BR][BR]I don't know for sure, but I remember reading somewhere that this is not a big money maker. I recall reading that it is barely a break-even proposition. Perhaps Eric can shed some light on this. [BR][BR]I definitely agree with the others who have commented about what an outstanding resource Eric is. If I had an airline, I would insist on having him by my side![BR][BR]Also, perhaps someone from TWA has some knowledge about TWA's participation during the Gulf War. I know they had 747's and I believe L-1011's involved.[BR][BR]In fact, the "TWAer Certificate" has a picture of a taxiing TWA 747 on the top right. If you take a look you will see someone is flying the flag from the upper deck emergency exit, as it returned from the Gulf War.[BR][BR]If you haven't gotten your "TWAer Certificate" or just want to see the photo, you can do so by going here:[BR][BR][A href=""][/A][BR][BR]A very hAAppy New Year to you Mikey, and to everyone here. My hope for 2003 is that all will be taking home a paycheck and AA will have some black ink to write with![BR][BR]Cheers![BR][BR]mAArky


Aug 23, 2002
Check out a thread on the UAL page regarding DOD Charter flying that UAL has been doing for the past couple weeks. Lots of 747-400's going from the US to FRA to Kuwait City and 777's about to get pressed into service. The jets are just on the ground for three hours in Kuwait and then return to FRA. Long day with a double-augmented crew.

Basically if the airlines can provide DOD with the required airlift outside of a CRAF activation it's better for the airlines money-wise.

With a CRAF activation you're committed to providing the extra lift and it'll come out of your already scheduled revenue flights (read loss of pax $$, rebookings, etc.) If you can spare the widebody lift without having to resort to CRAF it's a money maker for the airline as it's excess capacity that currently isn't being used.


FA Mikey

Aug 19, 2002
Airlines and Pentagon Discuss Using Commercial Transport Fleet

he nation's airlines have held initial discussions with the Pentagon about mobilizing a fleet of commercial and air cargo planes for use in the event of a war with Iraq, aviation officials said yesterday.

Such an action would mark only the second time in history that the military had mobilized the Civilian Reserve Air Fleet, a standby arrangement that lets the Pentagon call upon up to 925 aircraft and their crews during global conflicts. The fleet, established in 1951, was used during the Persian Gulf war to transport troops and equipment abroad.

The talks took place last week, said officials of the Air Mobility Command, based at Scott Air Force Base in Illinois. Maj. Gen. Roger A. Brady, director of operations for the command, spoke with officials of several of the two dozen airline and cargo carriers that take part in the air fleet, military officials said.

The primary purpose of the conversations, they said, was to ask carriers about their willingness to provide more charter planes for troop movements, short of a mobilization. No date for a mobilization has been set, aviation officials said.

Air carriers sign contracts pledging to take part in the fleet during military conflicts in return for Pentagon business during normal times. A war in Iraq would be likely to result in the most limited mobilization, which would involve 78 passenger and cargo jets and up to 2,000 crew members, military and airline officials said.

A mobilization would be a source of revenue for the airlines. During the gulf war, the Pentagon spent $1.5 billion on air fleet use. Commercial carriers provided 62 percent of the flights that carried troops and 27 percent of those carrying equipment, the Pentagon said.

Six major carriers — Delta, Northwest, American, Continental, United and US Airways — take part in the program, as well as five smaller passenger carriers and charter airlines. Cargo carriers include Federal Express, DHL International and U.P.S.

The fleet, which includes the industry's biggest aircraft, can be deployed in three stages. The first stage, the level reached in the gulf war, is intended for activation in a regional conflict.

Stage 2 applies in the case of a "major theater war." Some 292 aircraft, including medical evacuation planes flown by Delta and US Airways, would be deployed.

In Stage 3, declared in the event of the most extensive crisis, the airlines and cargo carriers would turn over 880 passenger and cargo planes and 45 medical evacuation craft.