Crew Chief

[AMFAMAN]

You want peer reviews? Interesting concept, but that runs the danger of becoming a modified popularity contest.

Oh, wait, you already have experience with popularity contests. It's called local elections...

Maybe a peer review would be the wrong way, but when a crew chief gets run off several crews for the same problems with different crews, it would be nice to have some sort system in place for the crew to clip his wings. Of course that same type of crew chief is most times loved by management, so they won't do the clipping.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

I remember when nearly all the crew chiefs were very senior, very knowledgable and very effective.

I don't.

When I hired it, in the CR days, there were all kinds, just like now.

The pool of crew chiefs is just as capable as the pool of supervisors.

I believe the operative term is "Damning with Faint Praise.

 

[Bob Owens]

The TCC's we have are all pretty knowledgeable. You know as well as I do there are names which I won't reveal here.

But you know the guy who almost got fired for slugging a TCC 2 weeks before his retirement????????????

Would you like him as a CC or TCC because of his seniority?
UH, I was responding to NH/BB's that IT is not just a matter of being obligated to the company, but a condition of the position.

He wasnt, the system works. The fact is that seniority is not the only stipultaion to becoming a crew chief, they have to pass probation, so if an incompetant Crew Chief remains at that position its the fault of management. I've seen that happen too. Do we really want Crew Chiefs who have to suck up to management in order to get the job? I also remember hearing about one Superviser who assaulted a mechanic and another one who beat up his girlfriend at the company bus stop. Neither lost their jobs for those offenses.

 

[Hopeful]

He wasnt, the system works. The fact is that seniority is not the only stipultaion to becoming a crew chief, they have to pass probation, so if an incompetant Crew Chief remains at that position its the fault of management. I've seen that happen too. Do we really want Crew Chiefs who have to suck up to management in order to get the job? I also remember hearing about one Superviser who assaulted a mechanic and another one who beat up his girlfriend at the company bus stop. Neither lost their jobs for those offenses.

Im not defending them or any ass kissing crew chief,
all im saying is that sometimes the senior most guy is not the necessarily the best guy...I can only recall one crew chief who was bounced back during probation

 

[Bob Owens]

Im not defending them or any ass kissing crew chief,
all im saying is that sometimes the senior most guy is not the necessarily the best guy...I can only recall one crew chief who was bounced back during probation

"Best guy" from who's perspective?

 

[Hopeful]

"Best guy" from who's perspective?

How about knowledge, Bob? How about a basically good mechanic who knows the job?

I ask you again about the guy who slugged the TCC? Do you think he would be the "best guy" for a crew chief job?

 

[Bob Owens]

How about knowledge, Bob? How about a basically good mechanic who knows the job?

Once again from who's perspective? Management? Are they the "Best"? The fact is they do have to take and pass a test within the probationary period. The scope of the test is at the sole discretion of management.

I ask you again about the guy who slugged the TCC? Do you think he would be the "best guy" for a crew chief job?

What about him? He never put in for the job, and if he had and he couldnt handle the job management could have him removed. As far as how "I" feel about that individuals ability its irrelevant to the point and the discussion about whether the current method is best. You prefer for management to pick within the union who will lead them within the ranks of the union. What next, allow management to pick who goes on vacation when or who works what shift? The Crew Chief is considered a premium position within the ranks of union members, therefore its a bid job because determing who is "best" is not a black and white or difinitive process. I think that the TCC system should be changed to be three union and two company.

 

[Bob Owens]

Personally, I think it's wrong to put someone in the position of earning less than the people they're supervising. But, under the seniority system, that's what happens.

Wrong again. How do you figure that its the fault of unions and the seniority sytem that upper management screws their own? The fact is the seniority system is the most effective system at preventing such injustices.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

The seniority system has inherent and intrinsic disadvantages. They are built in, and there is no getting around that.

The so-called "merit" system is fraught with subjectivity, and can be much better or much worse than the seniority system. In a healthy corporate culture, it is better. In a dysfunctional, or barely functional corporate culture, it can be worse. In a nutshell, it mirrors the quality (or lack thereof) of the level of management that administers it.

 

[The Goose]

You want peer reviews? Interesting concept, but that runs the danger of becoming a modified popularity contest.

Oh, wait, you already have experience with popularity contests. It's called local elections...

The 'modified popularity contest' is the basic tenet that has brought American business in general to where it is today, and I do not mean that in positive way.

Suction is favored over knowledge without fail - competency is tolerated only if there are no other choices available.

 

[TWU informer]

TWU stooges may as well give up seniority now.

It is the only thing left of the labor agreement.

 

[The Goose]

Im not defending them or any ass kissing crew chief,
all im saying is that sometimes the senior most guy is not the necessarily the best guy...I can only recall one crew chief who was bounced back during probation

Unfortunately, your example (bounced back) is the exception. Supervisors don't care to buck union seniority and risk ill-will as their bosses don't like any notoriety since it's bad for getting raises and bonuses, regardless of right or wrong.

As I said - competency is tolerated only when there are no other alternatives, and this attitude goes from the bottom to the top.

Once upon a time, Andrew Carnegie commented "I got to where I am by hiring people who are smarter than me." My my, how times and beliefs have changed.

Over the years, the yuppie contingent figured out that to keep their collective incompetent asses in a job, they had to hire those not quite so bright, making themselves more 'valuable' to their employers. After generations of this tripe we now have, for your amusement, American business (unions too)and most notably, the American air transport industry.

While many aspects of this industry sucks big ones, it's still the best pay I ever got for showing up at a comedy club on a daily basis.

 

[Man of the People]

The seniority system has inherent and intrinsic disadvantages. They are built in, and there is no getting around that.

The so-called "merit" system is fraught with subjectivity, and can be much better or much worse than the seniority system. In a healthy corporate culture, it is better. In a dysfunctional, or barely functional corporate culture, it can be worse. In a nutshell, it mirrors the quality (or lack thereof) of the level of management that administers it.

It's nothing a little "Lever Action" can't fix!

 

[TWU informer]

People may never realize the problem is not the seniority system that is flawed.

It is the discipline/accountability system that is flawed.

And that isn't just the Crew Chief job either.

It is across the board from management to floor worker.

Folks want do away with the seniority system instead of really facing the problem and obtaining a solution.

 

[ch53D]

The real problem here is management letting a crew chief off probation. Time and time again a crew chief makes it off probation and has a job for ever. If management wants to change things they need to follow the existing contract to the letter.

If the TWU lets the company have there way, which I believe will happen, we will have major problems. The company has wanted the tech crew chief selection process for crew chiefs for years. With this process the company gets to select the crew chief by default. With this process the company gets yes boys for crew chiefs.