Cutting Flights In Pit

[USA320Pilot]

I have not looked at the exact STL and surrounding population figures and was told the number. Regardless, it's a large city and metropolitan area. US Airways repeatedly has looked at this market for a hub and for those who dispute my comments, I suggest you talk with marketing and planning personnel.

I never said US Airways would create a hub there, I said it was my opinion this could occur.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[ITRADE]

Again, you're speaking ONLY of the city of St. Louis, and the county. Not a valid comparison. The metro area is what is serviced by the airport. The Metro area is more than the city and the county.

>>>
No. 24. Large Metropolitan Statistical Areas—Population: 1990 to 2003—Con.
[1990 and 2000, as of April 1; beginning 2001 as of July 1 (658 represents 658,000). Covers metropolitan statistical areas with
250,000 and over population in 2003 as defined by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget as of December 2003. For definitions
and components of all metropolitan and micropolitan areas, see Appendix II. Minus sign (-) indicates decrease]
<<<

St. Louis, MO-IL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,600 2,699 2,736 2,747 2,759

Values in thousands with the last value representing 2003.

 

[700UW]

Ah once again, blame "someone who told you" instead of accepting you posted wrong information once again to try support your idea of a STL hub.

Guess you never heard of checking out information before running with it, just like US can sell something they don't own right, because "someone else" told you it can happen?

 

[ITRADE]

Here is the composition of the St. Louis MSA:

41180 St. Louis, MO-IL Metropolitan Statistical Area
41180 17005 Bond County, IL
41180 17013 Calhoun County, IL
41180 17027 Clinton County, IL
41180 17083 Jersey County, IL
41180 17117 Macoupin County, IL
41180 17119 Madison County, IL
41180 17133 Monroe County, IL
41180 17163 St. Clair County, IL
41180 29055 Crawford County, MO (pt.)*
41180 29071 Franklin County, MO
41180 29099 Jefferson County, MO
41180 29113 Lincoln County, MO
41180 29183 St. Charles County, MO
41180 29189 St. Louis County, MO
41180 29219 Warren County, MO
41180 29221 Washington County, MO
41180 29510 St. Louis city, MO

 

[ITRADE]

I have not looked at the exact STL and surrounding population figures and was told the number. Regardless, it's a large city and metropolitan area. US Airways repeatedly has looked at this market for a hub and for those who dispute my comments, I suggest you talk with marketing and planning personnel.

I never said US Airways would create a hub here, I said it was my opinion this could occur.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269207"][/post]​

Anything could occur. Likelihood - low. With WN and AA still moderate to major forces there, it makes little sense to battle both carriers.

 

[USA320Pilot]

700UW:

In regard to the LGA terminal, I talked with an Astoria Board member and the LGA Station Manager who spoke of the discussions. The information has been presented in an open Board meeting. When would now be a good time for you to contact Liz Laneir and do some effective research on the subject instead of posting your continued drivel?

Separately, US Airways has long looked at a STL operation and it even was been included in the pilots contract with a MetroJet carve out. That no longer exists but marketing and planning deparatment analysts have evalutated this idea many, many times.

Will it occur now? I do not know, but I believe something in the Midwest will occur to better connect the "Left and Right Coasts."

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Travelpro72]

I'm just throwing this out there but what about Indianapolis? I know ATA is there and Northwest has been expanding a little. It's not that much further east than Chicago. Maybe not midwest enough?

 

[700UW]

When would it be a good time for you to admit you are wrong?

You can't sell something you don't own, if you could let me sell the house your dad owns that you live in.

Why don't you contact VP, Corporate Real Estate, Helen Tremont at CCY and maybe she can explain to you that US can't sell something it does not own.

Keep up your M.O. of never admitting you are wrong.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Of course, they're considering STL and lots of other stuff. I do suspect that there are contingency plans for life without UAL. STL after no UAL might make a bit of sense. Since AA will re-focus on ORD, probably.

Also, STL has no competing airports... that I can think of. I suspect that if fares are too high, folks would drive to Chicago, Kansas City and Memphis, but not to connect. So, the airport catchment population may be even larger than the MSA. I don't mean to disregard the drive away to Chicago. It may be a similar effect of the drive/train from PHL to DC and NYC.

Transferring some mainline flights to STL to make it roughly consistent the PI/US's focus on MCI at its height wouldn't be THAT big of a deal, would it? Enough to call it a hub, probably not.

But then U/HP would be competing with AA and WN for O/D traffic with a bit of connectivity. maybe. STL is a convenient connection point for me to my destinations from DCA.

 

[ngneer]

Also, STL has no competing airports... that I can think of.

[post="269229"][/post]​

Well, there's MidAmerica Airport, but aside TransMeridian and Allegiant Air, there's not much going on there.

http://www.flymidamerica.com/

 

[sfb]

Separately, US Airways has long looked at a STL operation and it even was been included in the pilots contract with a MetroJet carve out. That no longer exists but marketing and planning deparatment analysts have evalutated this idea many, many times.

"with a MetroJet carve out?" So they looked at it five (or more) years ago when "financially-troubled " TWA was still hubbed there. I think the situation of the company in the late 1990's has little bearing on what they'd be able to accomplish today. Moreover, I'm sure the consideration of a STL operation was predicated on TWA failing or being near failure. The picture is quite different today, given that AA is now the hub carrier (though with a smaller hub). If AA were to choose to scale back its STL hub (to shift capacity to ORD if UAL were to cease operations, for example), you can bet that Southwest would be taking advantage of the opportunity to add capacity at STL as well.

US Airways has virtually no market presence in St. Louis. Southwest and American have far greater recognition, brand loyalty, and frequent flyer program membership in the region. What reasons would people have to switch?

As for ORD, AA would fight US tooth-and-nail to protect its hub, and you'd likely see an influx of LCC's at ORD (especially jetBlue and probably AirTran) if United were to fail. Not exactly a recipe for success by any standard.

I think PIT will see cuts in a merged airline largely because they need to cut somewhere if the fleet is indeed going to be reduced by 60 aircraft. Those aircraft will be either going west to MHV or GYR or VCV or west to Asia.

 

[ClueByFour]

The population base in the STL surrounding area is about 4 million people. Moreover, the PIT processing costs are high for a low O&D hub.

[post="269144"][/post]​

First of all, you can claim that there are 4 million people in the STL area, but the US government, those state goverments in IL and MO, and the 1.3 million or so "phantom flyers" don't agree. *shrug* I hope it was not US planning personnel who told you there were 4 million people.

Secondly, the ACAA is reducing the debt service at PIT via state and federal monies, and slot revenue (eventually). It's costs are high because of the design US extorted in the early 1990s. That US would complain about those costs now is pretty funny in an ironic sort of way.

But that's okay. What US leaves, others will replace. US is not going to find another market where they can command %50 share of an airport with 2.5 million people.

 

[funguy2]

Perhaps US Airways is pulling out Carl Ichan's plan... 🙄 After all, US Airways went out an acquired PSA and Piedmont in part to diffuse a situation where Ichan was trying to acquire USAir and merge it into TWA... USAir decided it was "acquire to be acquired" and they were probably right... around 1986-88, if my memory serves correctly...

 

[USA320Pilot]

Clue:

Another problem with PIT is that it's too close to PHL and CLT. Very few travelers fly east to PIT to go west. The combined business entities would be better served post merger by connecting the East and West Coast's with a Midwest operation.

Again, do not be surprised if US Airways pulls down PIT in November and rejects all "A" concourse gates. The mainline and Express could use gates B26 though B38 and B40.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[us0004us]

Clue:
Again, do not be surprised if US Airways pulls down PIT in November and rejects all "A" concourse gates. The mainline and Express could use gates B26 though B38 and B40.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="269273"][/post]​

if they continue to right-size pit, one may wonder if they will consolidate the

operational hdqs

in clt?