Since 1983 when 1113 and 1114 have been enacted none have ever been overturned in court. AA tried last year agains the TWA employees and the court rejected AA's attempt.
CWA local leader recommends...VOTE NO!!
- Thread starter Gone4Now
- Start date
autofixer
Veteran
[blockquote]
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On 1/2/2003 5:24:47 PM sdavis29 wrote:
[BLOCKQUOTE]
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On 1/2/2003 5
20 PM autofixer wrote:
To all of those U employees who picketed the U ALPA headquarters in PIT in 1996--demanding the pilots accept the RJs, among other now unpopular issues. Now you are reaping the whirlwind. Good luck, you are going to need it! [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[/P]by the sounds of this you might also........
[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/10.gif']
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[/blockquote]
Nope! I have already taken my destiny into my own hands as of 1/1...good luck to all. [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/1.gif']
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On 1/2/2003 5:24:47 PM sdavis29 wrote:
[BLOCKQUOTE]
----------------
On 1/2/2003 5
20 PM autofixer wrote: To all of those U employees who picketed the U ALPA headquarters in PIT in 1996--demanding the pilots accept the RJs, among other now unpopular issues. Now you are reaping the whirlwind. Good luck, you are going to need it! [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[/P]by the sounds of this you might also........
[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/10.gif']
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[/blockquote]
Nope! I have already taken my destiny into my own hands as of 1/1...good luck to all. [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/1.gif']
There was a man from employee labor relations in CLT yesterday making the rounds talking with customer svc folks. He said if this agreement is voted down to be prepared to live with the consequences. He said there would be no "re"negotiations and this was the final vote and even if all groups voted yes except CWA there was a real possibility of liquidation. He said it wasnt fair for all groups to accept pay cuts except CWA. [BR][BR]I feel James is irresponsible to tell his members to vote no. Can James guarantee that if we vote no we will still have a job. These are dire times and not a time for grandstanding. Personally ive had problems with James' leadership from the beginning. From the lack of communication to members to the poorly written updates. I saw James on the wat to and from DCA during the last round of negotiations. On the way he said vote NO, on the way back he said vote YES. Now he says vote NO. [BR][BR]I for one am not ready to gamble my future and 21+ years or service. I think this contract stinks. I dont like the ideas of SARS working the ticket counter or skycaps giving boarding passes. Those are my jobs. BUT, when it comes down to it im not confident i can replace $40k/7 weeks of vacation. I like what i do and would like to continue. [BR][BR]Best of luck to all!!!![BR]
[blockquote]
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On 1/3/2003 9
36 AM Robc98 wrote:
Based on what information do you feel the company has enough to obtain the loan? Have you talked with the ATSB? What exactly did they say to you? Did they discuss revenue projections with you? NOT!!
Root is nothing more than an agent that won an election and found himself in way over his head. He dropped the ball in the negotiations just like all the other local Presidents did and didn't fight for the rank and file. Now he's trying to cover his butt to save face just like all the other local Presidents are. What is the deal with the $14 million he said the CWA offered the company? He's been saying that all over CLT and the fact is it isn't true. Who's lying to who? You're playing a game here that you can't win and once again you're in way over your head. I guess all that training pulling tickets and quoting fares has prepared you to do financial analysis as well. Good luck to you in your next endeavor
All the CWA did was react to the threat of liquidation...the members decide what they want and don't want...not the pres's....as far as playing a game?...theres no game here...this company is making cust svc look like fools...if ur a member of the CWA then open your eyes ...if ur not then mind ur own business....this company is taking everything they could get and will not stop until this group says stop....now its time....I dont need a conversation with the ATSB to know this proposal has nothing to do with monies needed for the loan....yes the CWA did have offers to the company that wouldve saved them much more money than they wanted....But that is not what they want...they want a large regional airline with mainline jets to come and go as they please and SAR's and skycaps to do our jobs just to name a few...they want our members to vote themselves out of jobs...its not gonna happen...and the company will not liquidate because of it..................................
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[/blockquote]
If you take your head out of the sand or wherever it is you'd realize the SAR and skycap issue is moot. One can go online and arrange for seating. Does that mean you want to ban the internet? Come on!
What are you talking about the Presidents don't decide what you want. Did you not elect them to represent you? Who did the negotiating? Who recommended a yes vote? Who came to an agreement? Wake up!
Mind my own business? It's not just CWA business we're talking here. You're talking about 33000 people out of work if you vote this down. The popular thinking that is being spread around CLT is "Don't worry...they'll come back and we'll get a better deal." or "They can't shut this place down. The governement would never allow it." Guess what? Eastern thought the same thing. Where are they right now? Well take a look outside. You're flying some of Easterns old 757's.
The time to take a stand is not when the company is in the death dive. Your timing on an issue like this leaves a lot to be desired.
What does the company want to do with the money then if it's not for the loan? This whole thing is about the ATSB loan whether you want to believe that or not. Without that loan you're toast and without the concessions you're in the same boat. If you think for a minute the company will come back and renegotiate you a better deal you're living with Alice in Wonderland.
If all this talk about closing cities to mainline and opening express is true what are they going to do with 279 airplanes? They've got to go somewhere. As for voting yourselves out of a job you say it's not going to happen? That's exactly what you're doing right now. Liquidation is a real possiblity and without ratification it will happen.
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On 1/3/2003 9
36 AM Robc98 wrote: Based on what information do you feel the company has enough to obtain the loan? Have you talked with the ATSB? What exactly did they say to you? Did they discuss revenue projections with you? NOT!!
Root is nothing more than an agent that won an election and found himself in way over his head. He dropped the ball in the negotiations just like all the other local Presidents did and didn't fight for the rank and file. Now he's trying to cover his butt to save face just like all the other local Presidents are. What is the deal with the $14 million he said the CWA offered the company? He's been saying that all over CLT and the fact is it isn't true. Who's lying to who? You're playing a game here that you can't win and once again you're in way over your head. I guess all that training pulling tickets and quoting fares has prepared you to do financial analysis as well. Good luck to you in your next endeavor
All the CWA did was react to the threat of liquidation...the members decide what they want and don't want...not the pres's....as far as playing a game?...theres no game here...this company is making cust svc look like fools...if ur a member of the CWA then open your eyes ...if ur not then mind ur own business....this company is taking everything they could get and will not stop until this group says stop....now its time....I dont need a conversation with the ATSB to know this proposal has nothing to do with monies needed for the loan....yes the CWA did have offers to the company that wouldve saved them much more money than they wanted....But that is not what they want...they want a large regional airline with mainline jets to come and go as they please and SAR's and skycaps to do our jobs just to name a few...they want our members to vote themselves out of jobs...its not gonna happen...and the company will not liquidate because of it..................................
----------------
[/blockquote]
If you take your head out of the sand or wherever it is you'd realize the SAR and skycap issue is moot. One can go online and arrange for seating. Does that mean you want to ban the internet? Come on!
What are you talking about the Presidents don't decide what you want. Did you not elect them to represent you? Who did the negotiating? Who recommended a yes vote? Who came to an agreement? Wake up!
Mind my own business? It's not just CWA business we're talking here. You're talking about 33000 people out of work if you vote this down. The popular thinking that is being spread around CLT is "Don't worry...they'll come back and we'll get a better deal." or "They can't shut this place down. The governement would never allow it." Guess what? Eastern thought the same thing. Where are they right now? Well take a look outside. You're flying some of Easterns old 757's.
The time to take a stand is not when the company is in the death dive. Your timing on an issue like this leaves a lot to be desired.
What does the company want to do with the money then if it's not for the loan? This whole thing is about the ATSB loan whether you want to believe that or not. Without that loan you're toast and without the concessions you're in the same boat. If you think for a minute the company will come back and renegotiate you a better deal you're living with Alice in Wonderland.
If all this talk about closing cities to mainline and opening express is true what are they going to do with 279 airplanes? They've got to go somewhere. As for voting yourselves out of a job you say it's not going to happen? That's exactly what you're doing right now. Liquidation is a real possiblity and without ratification it will happen.
Chip would you vote yes on a contract that would make 75% of ALPA (pilots now flying) become MDA within one year. No, or you are a dam fool.
Based on what information do you feel the company has enough to obtain the loan? Have you talked with the ATSB? What exactly did they say to you? Did they discuss revenue projections with you? NOT!!
Root is nothing more than an agent that won an election and found himself in way over his head. He dropped the ball in the negotiations just like all the other local Presidents did and didn't fight for the rank and file. Now he's trying to cover his butt to save face just like all the other local Presidents are. What is the deal with the $14 million he said the CWA offered the company? He's been saying that all over CLT and the fact is it isn't true. Who's lying to who? You're playing a game here that you can't win and once again you're in way over your head. I guess all that training pulling tickets and quoting fares has prepared you to do financial analysis as well. Good luck to you in your next endeavor
All the CWA did was react to the threat of liquidation...the members decide what they want and don't want...not the pres's....as far as playing a game?...theres no game here...this company is making cust svc look like fools...if ur a member of the CWA then open your eyes ...if ur not then mind ur own business....this company is taking everything they could get and will not stop until this group says stop....now its time....I dont need a conversation with the ATSB to know this proposal has nothing to do with monies needed for the loan....yes the CWA did have offers to the company that wouldve saved them much more money than they wanted....But that is not what they want...they want a large regional airline with mainline jets to come and go as they please and SAR's and skycaps to do our jobs just to name a few...they want our members to vote themselves out of jobs...its not gonna happen...and the company will not liquidate because of it..................................
Root is nothing more than an agent that won an election and found himself in way over his head. He dropped the ball in the negotiations just like all the other local Presidents did and didn't fight for the rank and file. Now he's trying to cover his butt to save face just like all the other local Presidents are. What is the deal with the $14 million he said the CWA offered the company? He's been saying that all over CLT and the fact is it isn't true. Who's lying to who? You're playing a game here that you can't win and once again you're in way over your head. I guess all that training pulling tickets and quoting fares has prepared you to do financial analysis as well. Good luck to you in your next endeavor
All the CWA did was react to the threat of liquidation...the members decide what they want and don't want...not the pres's....as far as playing a game?...theres no game here...this company is making cust svc look like fools...if ur a member of the CWA then open your eyes ...if ur not then mind ur own business....this company is taking everything they could get and will not stop until this group says stop....now its time....I dont need a conversation with the ATSB to know this proposal has nothing to do with monies needed for the loan....yes the CWA did have offers to the company that wouldve saved them much more money than they wanted....But that is not what they want...they want a large regional airline with mainline jets to come and go as they please and SAR's and skycaps to do our jobs just to name a few...they want our members to vote themselves out of jobs...its not gonna happen...and the company will not liquidate because of it..................................
If CWA stands up for it members like ALPA does theirs, will the pilots give a LITTLE more from their pension to keep the company out of chapter 7? If we go chapter 7 ALPA’s pension is down the tube. They have everything to lose. A great paying job, and a unheard of retirement. CWA members can find another $13.50 an hour job anywhere. We have no reason to vote yes. I don’t care what kind of bull !#@$ you spread on this board. My NO vote has been cast!
[blockquote]
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On 1/3/2003 10:00:41 AM deltawatch wrote:
The company will not negotiate in good faith with CWA leaders until we the membership turn down this ridiculous contract offer. It’s my understanding that one of the presidents offered to give the company an additional 44 million in saving from our healthcare and a .25 an hour across the board pay cut which would have given them the amount they said they need. They said NO.
They are asking for a $7.00 an hour pay cut for 75 % of our membership by transfuring all the senior agents to the hubs (clt) and making 80% of our stations MDA. They want MDA employees to work mainline flights. What is the total saving at the CWA’s expense for that???? 50 times what they say they need from us!
The pilots have the dollars needed to complete this restructuring in their pension plan. They are waiting to see if the CWA is stupid enough to vote yes. If we do then the pilots keep more of their unbelievable pension.
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[/blockquote]
How does the CWA voting yes have any bearing on the pilots pension? Another myth being spread is that the pilots pension is being subsidized by CWA. That is not true.
If you think turning down the contract will bring you back to the table you're sadly mistaken. Good luck finding another job paying what you make now.
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On 1/3/2003 10:00:41 AM deltawatch wrote:
The company will not negotiate in good faith with CWA leaders until we the membership turn down this ridiculous contract offer. It’s my understanding that one of the presidents offered to give the company an additional 44 million in saving from our healthcare and a .25 an hour across the board pay cut which would have given them the amount they said they need. They said NO.
They are asking for a $7.00 an hour pay cut for 75 % of our membership by transfuring all the senior agents to the hubs (clt) and making 80% of our stations MDA. They want MDA employees to work mainline flights. What is the total saving at the CWA’s expense for that???? 50 times what they say they need from us!
The pilots have the dollars needed to complete this restructuring in their pension plan. They are waiting to see if the CWA is stupid enough to vote yes. If we do then the pilots keep more of their unbelievable pension.
----------------
[/blockquote]
How does the CWA voting yes have any bearing on the pilots pension? Another myth being spread is that the pilots pension is being subsidized by CWA. That is not true.
If you think turning down the contract will bring you back to the table you're sadly mistaken. Good luck finding another job paying what you make now.
The company will not negotiate in good faith with CWA leaders until we the membership turn down this ridiculous contract offer. It’s my understanding that one of the presidents offered to give the company an additional 44 million in saving from our healthcare and a .25 an hour across the board pay cut which would have given them the amount they said they need. They said NO.
They are asking for a $7.00 an hour pay cut for 75 % of our membership by transfuring all the senior agents to the hubs (clt) and making 80% of our stations MDA. They want MDA employees to work mainline flights. What is the total saving at the CWA’s expense for that???? 50 times what they say they need from us!
The pilots have the dollars needed to complete this restructuring in their pension plan. They are waiting to see if the CWA is stupid enough to vote yes. If we do then the pilots keep more of their unbelievable pension.
They are asking for a $7.00 an hour pay cut for 75 % of our membership by transfuring all the senior agents to the hubs (clt) and making 80% of our stations MDA. They want MDA employees to work mainline flights. What is the total saving at the CWA’s expense for that???? 50 times what they say they need from us!
The pilots have the dollars needed to complete this restructuring in their pension plan. They are waiting to see if the CWA is stupid enough to vote yes. If we do then the pilots keep more of their unbelievable pension.
genejockey
Advanced
My wife has been a CSA with US Airways in PHL for 14 years. She voted no. She worked the ticket counter yesterday (Thrusday) morning until 11am. When she left at 11am, there was just ONE CSA working at a ticket counter with EIGHTY positions! That's it...one agent and seventy-nine vacant positions. My goodness, what must the the passengers thinking? My wife volunteered to stay, but she was told "This is what they want, this is exactly what they are going to get." in reference to upper management. With the current round of furloughs scheduled to take place on Monday Jan 6, what will the staffing be reduced too? They are so short now, it is almost impossible to imagine the demands placed on these few remaining CSAs, not to mention the inconvenience and delay for passengers. Maybe the companys intentions are to rduce staffing to bare bones and then increase SkyCap and SAR responsibilities? It truely amazes to think that a company with the best customer service in the industry villifies the very people that have consistently made US #1. Good luck and best wishes to all.
I applaud James Root for his courage to speak out about his vote.
I, too, agree with him. This concession package is a double-edged sword for employees no matter which way you vote. However, I do believe that it is in our best interests in the long term to vote "no."
This company is not going to fold the tent because of the way we vote. They will go before the bankruptcy judge, first. We cannot let this company continue doing this to us. We are not respected.
It "IS NOT" our wages that are out of proportion. "IT IS NOT" our attitudes that are distressing this airline. It "IS NOT" our pension (we have none) deficit that is putting the airline in a 3.1 billion dollar shortfall. It "IS NOT" our pension that will cost the company 70% of it*s pension costs between now and the end of these concession contracts. WE MUST have solidarity and tell the company as a group that enough is enough!!!
I also have to say, I am disappointed that the CWA itself did not express the same courage that Mr. Root did. "WHY," would the CWA say that this agreement was reached through a threat of liquidation, was an agreement reached not from fair bargaining, then turn around and reccommend a yes vote? Doesn*t make sense to me....unless you want to talk about dues paying head count. As a steward in the CWA,I feel very,very disappointed that they would join the corporate misleaders in reccommending a yes vote. A yes vote is certain jobs suicide for ourselves or many of those around us.
Please, don*t be so naive as to believe anything other than the fact that these additional concessions are to make up for the lack of progress with those above us.
Don*t let the misleaders threaten you into picking up their checks and funding their benefits at the expense of ours! If anything, have some pride in your ranks and let*s say....NO!
Again, my congratulations to Mr. James Root!
Buccaneer Bill
I, too, agree with him. This concession package is a double-edged sword for employees no matter which way you vote. However, I do believe that it is in our best interests in the long term to vote "no."
This company is not going to fold the tent because of the way we vote. They will go before the bankruptcy judge, first. We cannot let this company continue doing this to us. We are not respected.
It "IS NOT" our wages that are out of proportion. "IT IS NOT" our attitudes that are distressing this airline. It "IS NOT" our pension (we have none) deficit that is putting the airline in a 3.1 billion dollar shortfall. It "IS NOT" our pension that will cost the company 70% of it*s pension costs between now and the end of these concession contracts. WE MUST have solidarity and tell the company as a group that enough is enough!!!
I also have to say, I am disappointed that the CWA itself did not express the same courage that Mr. Root did. "WHY," would the CWA say that this agreement was reached through a threat of liquidation, was an agreement reached not from fair bargaining, then turn around and reccommend a yes vote? Doesn*t make sense to me....unless you want to talk about dues paying head count. As a steward in the CWA,I feel very,very disappointed that they would join the corporate misleaders in reccommending a yes vote. A yes vote is certain jobs suicide for ourselves or many of those around us.
Please, don*t be so naive as to believe anything other than the fact that these additional concessions are to make up for the lack of progress with those above us.
Don*t let the misleaders threaten you into picking up their checks and funding their benefits at the expense of ours! If anything, have some pride in your ranks and let*s say....NO!
Again, my congratulations to Mr. James Root!
Buccaneer Bill
[blockquote]
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On 1/3/2003 10:29:15 AM deltawatch wrote:
If CWA stands up for it members like ALPA does theirs, will the pilots give a LITTLE more from their pension to keep the company out of chapter 7? If we go chapter 7 ALPA’s pension is down the tube. They have everything to lose. A great paying job, and a unheard of retirement. CWA members can find another $13.50 an hour job anywhere. We have no reason to vote yes. I don’t care what kind of bull !#@$ you spread on this board. My NO vote has been cast!
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[/blockquote]
It's your right to vote no but finding another job at $13.50? Good luck!
Bull!@#t? Truth hurts I guess!
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On 1/3/2003 10:29:15 AM deltawatch wrote:
If CWA stands up for it members like ALPA does theirs, will the pilots give a LITTLE more from their pension to keep the company out of chapter 7? If we go chapter 7 ALPA’s pension is down the tube. They have everything to lose. A great paying job, and a unheard of retirement. CWA members can find another $13.50 an hour job anywhere. We have no reason to vote yes. I don’t care what kind of bull !#@$ you spread on this board. My NO vote has been cast!
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[/blockquote]
It's your right to vote no but finding another job at $13.50? Good luck!
Bull!@#t? Truth hurts I guess!
Would ALPA agree to a contract that allowed, lets say 50 Airbus aircraft to be dedicated to MDA pilots flying for half their wages in and out of cities were there is only four mainline departures a day?
[blockquote]
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On 1/3/2003 10:00:41 AM deltawatch wrote:
The company will not negotiate in good faith with CWA leaders until we the membership turn down this ridiculous contract offer. It’s my understanding that one of the presidents offered to give the company an additional 44 million in saving from our healthcare and a .25 an hour across the board pay cut which would have given them the amount they said they need. They said NO.
They are asking for a $7.00 an hour pay cut for 75 % of our membership by transfuring all the senior agents to the hubs (clt) and making 80% of our stations MDA. They want MDA employees to work mainline flights. What is the total saving at the CWA’s expense for that???? 50 times what they say they need from us!
The pilots have the dollars needed to complete this restructuring in their pension plan. They are waiting to see if the CWA is stupid enough to vote yes. If we do then the pilots keep more of their unbelievable pension.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Why would the company turn down 44 million? That's far more than they were even asking. If this wasn't so ridulous it'd be funny!
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On 1/3/2003 10:00:41 AM deltawatch wrote:
The company will not negotiate in good faith with CWA leaders until we the membership turn down this ridiculous contract offer. It’s my understanding that one of the presidents offered to give the company an additional 44 million in saving from our healthcare and a .25 an hour across the board pay cut which would have given them the amount they said they need. They said NO.
They are asking for a $7.00 an hour pay cut for 75 % of our membership by transfuring all the senior agents to the hubs (clt) and making 80% of our stations MDA. They want MDA employees to work mainline flights. What is the total saving at the CWA’s expense for that???? 50 times what they say they need from us!
The pilots have the dollars needed to complete this restructuring in their pension plan. They are waiting to see if the CWA is stupid enough to vote yes. If we do then the pilots keep more of their unbelievable pension.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Why would the company turn down 44 million? That's far more than they were even asking. If this wasn't so ridulous it'd be funny!
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